PastorKen Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) I've had this coin only a few years I bought it off someone who sold as a MS 69 coin but for whatever reason I just realized there's a line right across the middle of the coin that very visible and shouldn't be there contacted NGC so they're now aware..24 year later? But request I send it In to be downgraded...I feel that's not right one idk what exactly that line is ...they made the error grading it big time and to send it in have it "downgraded" without any kind of recognition of the mistake loses me money on the coin...what to do ?? Edited May 30, 2023 by PastorKen Misspelling GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 14 years later....but I get your point. Don't they stand by their grade ? Probably not much $$$ at stake with a modern, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) I'm sorry yea typo...I missed it I got bad eyes ...I'm 46 been just collecting small things since I was young...got some nice coins..gold too rich for my blood but love to have it and I absolutely agree and if they make a mistake which that's no SMALL miss there should be some sort of error labeling because it shouldn't be then less valuable that's wrong when some common coin could have a stupid mint mark error ..missing ..off..ect and be worth hundreds in really crappy condition but a near perfect fully silver coin loses value.? I just don't know what to do ...because I'd have to pay to send it back..? Edited May 30, 2023 by PastorKen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 MS69 is not perfect, the two reed marks in the center of the coin is why it is not an MS70. I assume that the line you speak of is at the bottom of the skirt, as that follows the skirt line it is not a scratch or defect . It appears to be some strike doubling, nothing to get upset about in my opinion. However, if it bothers you then sell the coin and buy one that you find acceptable to you. ldhair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) @PastorKen posted this same coin on the NGC Registry forum back in April. My response is the same as it was there. In essence, it is arguable whether or not NGC "overgraded" this coin. Coins graded "69" aren't required to be free from blemishes but to have only "nearly imperceptible imperfections". What is "nearly imperceptible", especially to the naked eye, is subjective. Even coins graded "70" are only required to have "no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification." In any event, a common date Silver Eagle graded "69" or lower is essentially a bullion item and certainly not worth sending to NGC to be downgraded or for a grading guarantee claim. It is advisable to buy even certified coins on a "sight-seen" basis. Edited May 30, 2023 by Sandon GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) No 69 isn't perfect but by their standards it shouldn't have any visible defects... Edited May 30, 2023 by PastorKen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 (edited) That's my problem idk who would buy it and how they would.."see" the coin (grade) and I'd just buy other coins I want..but alot of friends online who collect say keep it and definitely don't send it in ...again I'd rather sell it and NOT lose money and just buy others or straight up trade for others...and graded coins aren't so important for that reason you stated plus the premiums are just ridiculous and fakes ...very good fakes are flooding the market more and more it's disgusting Edited May 31, 2023 by PastorKen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 2:54 PM, PastorKen said: No 69 isn't perfect but by their standards it shouldn't have any visible defects... What are their standards for a 69? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 4:52 PM, ldhair said: What are their standards for a 69? A fully struck coin with nearly imperceptible imperfections. See NGC Coin Grading Scale | About Coin Grades | NGC PastorKen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 2:04 PM, PastorKen said: I feel that's not right one idk what exactly that line is That's all they should do at this point. You bought and accepted the coin without looking at it carefully - you looked at a paper label. You and all previous owners made that same fundamental error. ANA has a good summer class in examining and grading coins. Consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 I think the coin is a 69 buy all rights. I would not send it in it is fine just the way it is. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 NGC got it correct. It's a 69 by their own standards. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I am in alignment with @Coinbuf on this one. There were TONS of these ASE's of the same year graded and slabbed. Unless that was something special given to you by someone special that you have some kind of sentimental attachment to it, sell it and buy an MS 70. Or another MS 69. To make that much fuss over what is essentially a bullion slab is just self punishment. I also think if that is the only imperfections on the entire coin, they gave it an MS 69 because it doesn't have enough marks or imperfections to give it an MS 68 grade and the grade is probably proper. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) Thanks for the replies...I'm not trying to make a "big deal" about the coin ..but as I said they originally graded the coin 69 "nearly perfect to the eye" but the circle below the left hand is too noticeable to be a 69 and when I contacted NGC they told me they wanted it back to downgrade the coin to a 66 or 67 now I don't care if some of ya'll feel that doesn't matter that's your opinion but let me know what graded eagles you got I can buy at spot ...which is more or less what someone said ...smh I was only looking for for more options on what I should do with it tbh I could care less that's it's graded or not and yes I didn't knotice it when I bought it because it was some years ago and the marks in the center looked like it was supposed to be there ..it wasn't till about a year ago that I saw it next to a newer coin and realized that wasn't supposed to be there ...but thanks for ya'lls input I know what I'll do... Edited May 31, 2023 by PastorKen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 1:59 AM, PastorKen said: let me know what graded eagles you got I can buy at spot ...which is more or less what someone said I don't think that anyone is saying that. I'm sure we have all bought a coin and later decided we didn't like it. I would just sell the coin and buy something you do like. These are bringing $50 to $80 at auction. PastorKen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) On 5/31/2023 at 7:12 AM, ldhair said: I don't think that anyone is saying that. I'm sure we have all bought a coin and later decided we didn't like it. I would just sell the coin and buy something you do like. These are bringing $50 to $80 at auction. Here is your coin on the NGC coin look up search PastorKen just so you know. https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3255205-114/69/ Edited May 31, 2023 by J P M rrantique 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 6:24 AM, J P M said: Here is your coin on the NGC coin look up search PastorKen just so you know. https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3255205-114/69/ Close, but not quite, @J P M. You are showing -114. The OP’s is -144. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 2:59 AM, PastorKen said: they originally graded the coin 69 Which was obviously incorrect. Size and locations of the marks suggest MS-65 - but no better. The original owner might have thought it a "gift grade" or just not seen the marks. Having them reslab the bullion piece just eats up more money for no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) That certification number is not showing up so it was either pulled by NGC as incorrect or it's a counterfeit slab however unlikely. Also, the lower portion of the coin circled by the op looks like just a continuation of the dress bottom so it may just be the bag mark by the waist. In any event, the 2009 ASE is a bullion coin, and below MS70 would be less than about a $10 cost difference in MS grades, and likely doesn't even belong in a holder to begin with having a bag mark. I would just leave it. Edited May 31, 2023 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 (edited) On 5/31/2023 at 2:53 PM, EagleRJO said: That certification number is not showing up so it was either pulled by NGC as incorrect or it's a counterfeit slab however unlikely. In any event, the 2009 ASE is a bullion coin and below MS70 would be less than about a $10 cost difference in MS grades, and likely doesn't even belong in a holder to begin with. So I would just leave it. It was registered under my name with the pictures I have and when It showed up the pictures were the same it's not counterfeit...lol no but earlier when that one response showed the link to my coin the pictures changed so I retried to insert my pictures..?? So idk what happened Edited May 31, 2023 by PastorKen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 This thread has gone off the rails. EagleRJO's post changes everything. The mystery is now counterfeit holder, counterfeit coin, or counterfeit holder & counterfeit coin. PasterKen, you have to detail more precisely what you're saying in this thread, and what exactly you did with the NGC Coin Registry, and what exactly resulted. Double question marks says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 2:53 PM, EagleRJO said: That certification number is not showing up so it was either pulled by NGC as incorrect or it's a counterfeit slab however unlikely. In any event, the 2009 ASE is a bullion coin and below MS70 would be less than about a $10 cost difference in MS grades, and likely doesn't even belong in a holder to begin with. So I would just leave it. I contacted them and asked why it was pulled the original picture showed the coin as it is with that line through the center....when someone posted the link like I said the picture was different...I called them and asked why did you pull my coin...they said they'll check on it but it should be back up tomorrow...hopefully....they really shouldn't have pulled it ...they said it was my choice to send it in or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 3:51 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said: This thread has gone off the rails. EagleRJO's post changes everything. The mystery is now counterfeit holder, counterfeit coin, or counterfeit holder & counterfeit coin. PasterKen, you have to detail more precisely what you're saying in this thread, and what exactly you did with the NGC Coin Registry, and what exactly resulted. Double question marks says it all. I'm sorry it's not counterfeit it was up there since 2009 ....I'm sorry for asking questions...I guess I need to not ask people who could possibly give me advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAuPzlBxBob Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 So, right now we're waiting for tomorrow? (when NGC said they'd check on it) Let's assume the coin does come back onto NGC Verification. If that happens, and the coin was over-graded, NGC owes you something… that's what their guarantee provides… compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 I was just pointing out that the correct certification number (3255205-144 @ 69 and not ... 114) was not showing up as valid and could be either possibility, not that it was counterfeit. I really don't get why it's such a big deal about a bag mark by the waist when an MS69 is not a perfect coin. If you want a perfect coin sell that one and pay the extra $30 to $40 for a perfect coin. But it doesn't change it's still a bullion coin. If you want collectible ASEs look at the proof coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 4:05 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said: So, right now we're waiting for tomorrow? (when NGC said they'd check on it) Let's assume the coin does come back onto NGC Verification. If that happens, and the coin was over-graded, NGC owes you something… that's what their guarantee provides… compensation. That's the only reason I asked questions on THIS forum because I thought I'd get the best information possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 3:54 PM, PastorKen said: No 69 ... shouldn't have any visible defects. Where did you get that from? Look at the NGC and ANA Grading Standards for that coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 4:07 PM, EagleRJO said: Where did you get that from? Look at the NGC and ANA Grading Standards for that coin. I read it somewhere in the ngc grading system about how they grade coins if I mistakenly read it I'm sorry but I read it as a 69 yes can have defects but they shouldn't be visible without some magnification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 3:54 PM, PastorKen said: No 69 isn't perfect but by their standards it shouldn't have any visible defects... Eh.....I dunno....it can be visible but that is pretty easy to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorKen Posted May 31, 2023 Author Share Posted May 31, 2023 On 5/31/2023 at 4:07 PM, EagleRJO said: Where did you get that from? Look at the NGC and ANA Grading Standards for that coin. And I agree with USA BOB ...that's why I asked questions here i though their request to send it back to be downgraded wasn't right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
