What is the oldest slabbed copper coin with Red (RD) mint state colour? 0

[xCandia]

Greetings to all!

I am asking this SIMPLE question to NGC and everyone who might know something. First of all NGC CAN ANSWER that question, at least on their behalf as THEY ARE the one who grade and slab coins. It is their own system. I have found that the oldest RD coin PCGS have ever graded is an 1/2 Penny (Hibernia) 1723, graded as MS64RD. But I can't find what is the oldest that NGC have ever graded. I think it is an interesting subject that many people would like to know the answer, regarding this condition rarity question. 

So, what is the oldest slabbed copper coin with red (RD) mint state colour designation NGC has graded?

[KaileeS CS]

Hello @xCandia, thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately, we do not have a simple way in order system to find the oldest RD MS coin. However, if you are interested in determining this information, you can find all of our census data found HERE.

Please let us know if you have any additional questions. Thank you!

[xCandia]

On 4/30/2023 at 4:24 PM, KaileeS CS said:

Hello @xCandia, thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately, we do not have a simple way in order system to find the oldest RD MS coin. However, if you are interested in determining this information, you can find all of our census data found HERE.

Please let us know if you have any additional questions. Thank you!

Hello. First of all, I would like to trully thank you for your time. But with all due respect I cannot undestand how NGC is not able to answer this question. The question is, what is the oldest slabbed copper coin with red (RD) mint state colour designation that *!NGC!* has ever graded? It is a question of NGC's grading procedure, made by NGC's grading procedure, for NGC's graded coins. If NGC is not able to answer it I have NO CLUE who can answer it. I think that the IT department can find the answer. Or the many numismatists that NGC has, can tell what is the oldest they have ever witnessed. That is how was able to narrow down the oldest PCGS's red (RD) copper coin.

Plus, if anyone (apart from NGC) has a clue about the answer of the question please do not hesitate to answer here. We can start by posting our oldest RD copper coins. Generally, I think that is a genuine question about true collectible rarity. Maybe the definition of condition rarity.

[Sandon]

  Welcome to the NGC chat board.  

  You can answer this question yourself if you care to take the time. Just go to the NGC Census to which you were provided a link (or go to the Census through the "Resources" tab on the home page) and look through the various earlier issues of copper coins that have "RD" designations.  If you're including non-U.S. and Colonial coins in this, it may take a while, but since you deem knowing this important, it should be worth it to you.

  Bear in mind that the oldest copper coin with the "RD" designation may no longer be in an NGC holder, and/or it may no longer have sufficient original color to still be eligible for the "RD" designation.

   My oldest NGC graded coin with the "RD" designation is a 1930 Lincoln cent graded MS 64 RD, but there are much older pieces with the designation than that.

[Just Bob]

After a very quick search, the oldest coin I found was a 1723 Woods Hibernia 1/2 P in MS 64RD. There are three shown in that grade. I may have missed an earlier one, but I don't think so.

Edited to add: I would not be at all surprised if one of the three coins graded MS64 RD at NGC turned out to be the same one graded at PCGS. Crossovers seem to be the norm these days.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Just Bob
Had the grade wrong

[xCandia]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:47 AM, Sandon said:

  Welcome to the NGC chat board.  

  You can answer this question yourself if you care to take the time. Just go to the NGC Census to which you were provided a link (or go to the Census through the "Resources" tab on the home page) and look through the various earlier issues of copper coins that have "RD" designations.  If you're including non-U.S. and Colonial coins in this, it may take a while, but since you deem knowing this important, it should be worth it to you.

  Bear in mind that the oldest copper coin with the "RD" designation may no longer be in an NGC holder, and/or it may no longer have sufficient original color to still be eligible for the "RD" designation.

   My oldest NGC graded coin with the "RD" designation is a 1930 Lincoln cent graded MS 64 RD, but there are much older pieces with the designation than that.

Greetings and thank you for your time. Unfortunately, it is not possible to look ALL the census of copper coins with RD designations. I hope you can understand that. It would need so days or even weeks.

In order to answer the question, what is the oldest slabed copper coin with an RD designation, coins outside U.S. are of course included. So as you understand, in order to check on every copper coin, of every country in the world for the red designation is something that would need so much time that almost nobody can spare. It would be a tone easy for the IT team of NGC itself to find the solution as it is their own system. I think it is funny that NGC can't answer what is the oldest copper coin with red (RD) colour that NGC have ever graded...

NGC guarantees a specific time of some years that they coin retain the colour and would consider as such (RD or RB). I am talking about those coins that are ok with all the standards of NGC's policy.

Thank you very much for sharing the date if your oldest copper coin with RD colour.

[xCandia]

On 5/1/2023 at 7:02 AM, Just Bob said:

After a very quick search, the oldest coin I found was a 1723 Woods Hibernia 1/2 P in MS 64RD. There are three shown in that grade. I may have missed an earlier one, but I don't think so.

Edited to add: I would not be at all surprised if one of the three coins graded MS64 RD at NGC turned out to be the same one graded at PCGS. Crossovers seem to be the norm these days.

Yes, that is the oldest copper coin graded with red (RD) colour that I have ever found, too. It was sold in Heritage I think some years before. And you are probably right that of those 3 some might be crossover from one to the other company. It is indeed the norm these days that everybody "chase the grades"... In my country it is extreme how many coins are sending again and again towards any company.  I find by far NGC more consistent in their grades than any other company, at least at world coins.

The thing is that I have a copper red coin slabed which aprroximately one century older that the half P 1723 (Hibernia) at the same grade (MS64RD)