Identify Undated Morgan Dollar 0

[Mike_W]

Hello All:

I've been a collector for almost 50 years and have collected Morgan Dollars over the past several years. I have a dateless Morgan dollar that was given to me several years ago as a pocket piece (the date has been scratched away). Just for fun, is it possible to date the coin?
For starters it was made in Philadelphia, has stanted arrow feathers, and appears to be pre-1921 (at least in my opinion). From the pictures, are there any varieties that might help identify date the coin was minted?

Thanks!
Mike_W

[Sandon]

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.  

   I read years ago that in the early 1960s casino owners deliberately removed the dates from silver dollars to discourage customers from keeping them, as they were becoming unavailable from banks at face value. This coin could be an example of that unfortunate practice.

  Your coin has the "C3" seven tailfeather, convex breast, slanted top arrow feather reverse that was introduced at the Philadelphia mint in the latter part of 1878 and was used on all Philadelphia issues from 1879-1900 and on some 1901 pieces as well.  Based on the size of the remaining "1", I think that this is likely a coin that was dated from 1878 to 1883, as the date size was reduced beginning in 1884. I would have to compare the coin to other pieces of those dates to be sure.  It would be difficult or impossible to determine the exact date unless the die markers of one specific VAM (Van Allen & Mallis) die variety could be matched to this coin. If you want to attempt this, there are descriptions and photos of most of these numerous and often minor varieties at vamworld.com.

 

[RWB]

Now the follow-on question.... "What did casinos do with all the digits they scraped off? Were they glued on to other, dateless coins, or sold to "The Mob" for use in altering 1896 dollars to "1895" or.....?

 

[Henri Charriere]

Unlike hand guns whose serial numbers are stamped into the metal bas relief, the date was stamped in  high relief.  Many Buffalo nickels lost their dates unintentionally through wear.  The only solution I see here is using a date-restoring chemical still available on the market which hobbyists have a disdain for but at this point you have little to lose.  The damage has already been done. My own personal feeling is whatever method you choose will be insufficient to overcome the desecration committed.  [I do like the cocktail glass that was inserted between the letters D and O at 18:00. Reminds me of Spike Jones' "Cocktails for Two."]  If your result is legible, feel free to post it here--along with the method you chose. Worse comes to worse, we can always aolicit the suggestions of resident Mad Scientists of which we have a few.

Makes me wonder if they ever caught the guy who obliterated the D's on all those 1922 Lincoln Cents. 🤣

 

[Nicolas Larson]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:26 PM, Sandon said:

   Welcome to the NGC chat board.  

   I read years ago that in the early 1960s casino owners deliberately removed the dates from silver dollars to discourage customers from keeping them, as they were becoming unavailable from banks at face value. This coin could be an example of that unfortunate practice.

  Your coin has the "C3" seven tailfeather, convex breast, slanted top arrow feather reverse that was introduced at the Philadelphia mint in the latter part of 1878 and was used on all Philadelphia issues from 1879-1900 and on some 1901 pieces as well.  Based on the size of the remaining "1", I think that this is likely a coin that was dated from 1878 to 1883, as the date size was reduced beginning in 1884. I would have to compare the coin to other pieces of those dates to be sure.  It would be difficult or impossible to determine the exact date unless the die markers of one specific VAM (Van Allen & Mallis) die variety could be matched to this coin. If you want to attempt this, there are descriptions and photos of most of these numerous and often minor varieties at vamworld.com.

 

Hey there,

It's really interesting to hear about how casino owners removed dates from silver dollars back in the 1960s to keep customers from hoarding them. It's a shame that such a cool piece of history had to go through that.
If you wanna know more about casinos I would recommend this site https://cine.no/2023/02/23/casinofilmer-hjelper-deg-med-a-avdekke-skjulte-fordeler-ved-gambling/ it's very informative.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge about the ""C3"" seven tailfeather coin and the possible date range. I'd never thought about how casinos could have impacted these coins. It's always great to learn something new about the stories behind these treasures.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Nicolas Larson

[Cozdred]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:00 AM, Mike_W said:

 

       Just for fun, is it possible to date the coin?

 

 

The first thing I notice about this coin is that it was struck a bit off-center.  The south rim edge is about double the width of the north rim edge. I'm no expert on Morgans, but I'm sure I've personally never seen one like this. Unfortunately, that won't help identify it since the mis-strike could be a feature of just this one single coin, and not a recognized variety. 

 

[DSessom]

My best guess after studying it a while, is that it's an 1879-P. Why in the world would someone scratch the date off? That's a shame. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 4/26/2023 at 11:12 AM, DSessom said:

My best guess after studying it a while, is that it's an 1879-P. Why in the world would someone scratch the date off? That's a shame. 

I have a feeling with the advent of casino chips, the defaced silver dollars were sold off for scrap and meltings.

[Mike_W]

Thank you to all for the great replies - this dollar may indeed been used in Las Vegas. As the story goes it was given to my mother before I was born around 1960-61 by a friend who had recently returned from a trip "out West." I wanted to be sure it wasn't a 94-P or 95-P (which was highly unlikely!) before I but a drop or two of a silver "date restorer" to try to etch the date. I've got a 1918-D Buffalo around somewhere that I used to "restore" the date years ago with nickel date restorer. 

I will post pictures of the dollar if any date "appears"

This is a great and knowledgeable forum - thanks again!

Mike W