Rarest Coins by SERIES? 0

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Every series has its "key" dates. Some series have keys that are virtually non-collectible while the rest of the series is available (ex. 1913 Liberty Nickel, 1933 St Gaudens Double Eagle, 1964 Peace Dollar, etc.). But, what are the coins that have the most scarcity as a series (this is to say that even the "common dates" are scarce)?

[RWB]

Early quarter eagles, $3, (no, the $4 stella is not a coin; it's a pattern piece).

1964 dollars are unknown in any collection and are therefore uncollectible.

[Sandon]

   All U.S. gold coins (quarter eagle through eagle) issued before the 1834 "Classic Head" quarter eagles and half eagles are rare to extremely rare and most collectors can only afford to collect them by type, if at all.  The vast majority of them were exported and melted down overseas during the 1820s and 30s, as their weight made them worth more than face value when compared to silver.  

   If the 1796-97 Draped Bust, Small Eagle half dollars are viewed as a separate "series", then this series, with a reported mintage totaling 3,918 for the three "Redbook" varieties (4 die varieties total, 2 for each of 1796 and 1797), with only a few hundred of all varieties combined in existence, is also very rare in its entirety.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/22/2023 at 12:20 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

But, what are the coins that have the most scarcity as a series (this is to say that even the "common dates" are scarce)?

Go to Mint State and many series are tough to get.

Liberty Head Double Eagles....though plentiful in the aggregate....are tough to get for MOST coins (esp. Type 1 and Type 2's) in AU or better condition and especially so for Carson City mint coins.

[World Colonial]

Hardest US series to complete is the Capped Head half eagle (1813-1834).  All but the 1813 are at least legitimately scarce.

Capped Head quarter eagle only has a few dates but also scarce.

As a series in US coinage, that's it meeting your definition, unless we are getting into condition scarcity which mostly isn't an actual scarcity.

What most US collectors consider scarce or hard to buy isn't.  Outside of Saints and Indian Head eagles which have a low proportion of scarce/rare/"key" dates, every series from the Barber coinage forward either can or likely can be bought in one day in "high" quality.  A very few dates (like the 1895-O dime) might not be available today, but that's all. Those that aren't available now almost certainly will be tomorrow, next week, or in a few months.  Same for Morgan dollars, capped bust halves, and capped bust half dimes.  Same for the proofs, excluding capped bust.

Draped Bust/SE half isn't hard to buy.  One of the two dates (1797 I think) seems to be a harder than the other, but it's always been available as a type in at least XF when I have checked.

Edited March 22, 2023 by World Colonial

[World Colonial]

On 3/22/2023 at 3:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Go to Mint State and many series are tough to get.

There is no significance to that, especially since gold coinage exists in above average quality most of the time.

Using this criterion, a noticeable proportion of non-US coinage is scarce or rare.

I use "collectible" quality as a middle ground, meaning above dreck in the quality most collectors of the series will accept but below the narrow quality used by US collectors.

[powermad5000]

I am going to stick with the Liberty Cap Cents series (1793-1796) with many low mintages and the one key date in the following description by NGC :

The most coveted of all Sheldon numbered large cents is 1795 S-79, the famous Reeded Edge cent, sometimes called the Holy Grail of Sheldon numbers. Just eight examples are known today, including one in the ANS holdings.

Worst grade possible but I am happy to have just one of them....

 

[World Colonial]

I think several are interpreting the OP different than I am.

"But, what are the coins that have the most scarcity as a series (this is to say that even the "common dates" are scarce)?

Using the verbiage in bold above, that's why I chose the Capped Head half eagle.  There are one-year types and short year series (like the 1796-1797) that are somewhat scarce or somewhat hard to buy, but from all other series, only a low proportion or very few of the dates are actually hard to buy, unless the criteria is defined by quality or some specialization such as a die variety where there is nothing unusual about it.

Only a low proportion of US coins are hard to buy primarily due to the price, but also the communication network advertising available inventory: eBay, auctions like Heritage, Certified Coin Exchange, etc.  The proportion which isn't available right now and all the time is probably below 5% of all Federal circulation strikes and proofs since 1793.  Noticeably lower within six months or one year.

I look at a variety of US coins intermittently.  That's how I know most are available.  As one example, on one occasion, I found all Liberty Seated dime proofs from 1856 to 1891 on eBay the same day though I did have to go to Collector's Corner for a graded 1862.  That's typically thought of as a (somewhat) difficult series, but it isn't except for the earliest dates. 

It's not really that much different for most others.  The Capped Head half eagle is the only series (of any length) to my knowledge where the majority of date/MM are both scarce and hard to buy.  Without looking, I'd only expect to find the 1813 and possibly 1814, 1818 and 1820, though I might have one of those dates wrong.

[zadok]

...i would have to agree with Sandon n WC on this survey, as US minted series all three of the early Capped Bust gold denominations r prohibitive to assemble... quarter, half n eagle r rare across the board...more or less life time collecting goals if funds allow...all of the rest of the US minted gold series have their key dates but as series not prohibitive...while not a US minted series the colonial Mass New England series is also difficult to complete as a series but collections of these do appear on the market from time to time....

[samclemen3991]

I guess I have a different take on this question.  To me there is no such thing as a COMMON date early gold or silver coin.  I would venture to guess that the vast majority of collectors have never seen a coin from 1797 or some other such early federal date.  I know I haven't.

I consider a common coin to be something like a 1921 Morgan dollar.  You could probably buy a thousand of them right now today.  Just a rhetorical statement.

My current pick for a coin series that is supposed to have numerous COMMON date coins (that don't seem to exist) would be Seated Quarters.  I have 2 reference books on these coins and they will say about numerous coins,

"A common date, can be found in any grade desired."  Or, "slightly scarce, but can be easily found."  None of which matches up with my personal experience.  I have coins on my personal list that have not appeared for sale in the last 2 years(At least in the grade I am chasing).  I have several coins that are described as common, but have certified populations of 2 or 3 hundred.

I must mention I have over 12 dealers on my list I check daily.  I follow three different auction sites.  I have 3 different search engines that are supposed to track the listings of hundreds of dealers. I check E-bay on a regular basis.

So if someone out there knows where this mystical supply of Seated Quarters that are in collector friendly grades and don't look like they were used as a chew toy by Cheribus.exists: please let me know.

I

[World Colonial]

On 3/23/2023 at 11:26 AM, samclemen3991 said:

I guess I have a different take on this question.  To me there is no such thing as a COMMON date early gold or silver coin.  I would venture to guess that the vast majority of collectors have never seen a coin from 1797 or some other such early federal date.  I know I haven't.

There is a difference between scarce and hard to buy.

No, none of the early US gold coins (1834 and earlier) are common, but a noticeable percentage aren't hard to buy as a date, only in a specific quality or as a die variety.  Some of the early silver I'd consider common, where it's a Judd scale R-1 with 1250+ available.

"Hard to buy" isn't absolute, but no coin that can be bought at any time can be described as hard to buy or really scarce.  Both "scarce" and "common" are relative.

The primary reason most US coins aren't that hard to buy is the price and second, it's advertised more prominently versus non-US coinage where anyone who is interested in finding it can do so.

With a series like Seated quarters, I'm not aware it's scarcer versus any early gold coin-for-coin, but the much lower prices mean the lower quality coins aren't as well publicized.  I've looked at the survival estimates in Coin Facts, and some given the mintages seem too low.  That's also almost certainly a factor for the non-US series I primarily collect, where I have used equivalent Liberty Seated denominations as a basis of comparison.

What I am describing is part (not all) of the reason for the discrepancy with your personal experience.  Personal experience is only partly representative.

[zadok]

On 3/23/2023 at 11:26 AM, samclemen3991 said:

I guess I have a different take on this question.  To me there is no such thing as a COMMON date early gold or silver coin.  I would venture to guess that the vast majority of collectors have never seen a coin from 1797 or some other such early federal date.  I know I haven't.

I consider a common coin to be something like a 1921 Morgan dollar.  You could probably buy a thousand of them right now today.  Just a rhetorical statement.

My current pick for a coin series that is supposed to have numerous COMMON date coins (that don't seem to exist) would be Seated Quarters.  I have 2 reference books on these coins and they will say about numerous coins,

"A common date, can be found in any grade desired."  Or, "slightly scarce, but can be easily found."  None of which matches up with my personal experience.  I have coins on my personal list that have not appeared for sale in the last 2 years(At least in the grade I am chasing).  I have several coins that are described as common, but have certified populations of 2 or 3 hundred.

I must mention I have over 12 dealers on my list I check daily.  I follow three different auction sites.  I have 3 different search engines that are supposed to track the listings of hundreds of dealers. I check E-bay on a regular basis.

So if someone out there knows where this mystical supply of Seated Quarters that are in collector friendly grades and don't look like they were used as a chew toy by Cheribus.exists: please let me know.

I

...the Liberty Seated series, dimes, quarters, half dollars, dollars r all hard to complete due to several key date coins that infrequently show up in certain grades, but all r obtainable if ur budget allows...the quarter series is probably the most difficult because of the number of key dates in the series...all of these series r lengthy, 1837-1891, but virtually all of the coins appear on the market from time to time, there r a few coins in the seated series where only one coin exists n there r a few coins where less than 5 r known...but all of these series r replete with numerous common date coins that show up frequently at all major coin shows n auctions thru out the year...there r many complete sets known in various grades...u will notice i did not include the half dimes in my comment, this series is readily available in virtually every grade, i personally have completed this series 3 times in different grades n 2 times in the quarter series that u reference...to get a much more detailed insight into the seated series u should consider joining the Liberty Seated Collectors Club, they have their own web site which is free to peruse....

[World Colonial]

Wrong about at least some of the Capped Head quarter eagles.  Collectors Corner has five each of the 1830 and 1832, two of the 1831, plus several other dates.  Lists most other early gold up to 1807, in various grades including MS.  Lists 1813, 1814, 1818, and 1834 half eagle.

[samclemen3991]

I will stand by my statement.  Seated Quarters seem to me to be the poster child for a series that even many of the common coins are hard to find.  I wish I could remember the pundit and his exact words. He wrote something like "Morgan dollars are common coins pretending to be rare coins.  Everyone knows this but nobody cares.  They are big, shiny, can be collected a hundred different ways and there are plenty for everyone.  Seated Dollars are true rare coins but nobody cares.  The vast majority of collectors just hope to get one or two for their collection and there are a few semi-common dates that meet this need."

I think Seated Quarters have a similar relationship with Seated Half dollars.  Seated Halves will never be Morgan's but they are big and shiny , can be collected a hundred different ways and except for a few dates there our plenty for everyone.  Seated Quarters have numerous hard to find dates, some considered rare some considered common.  There are also a few dates that are very common and much like Seated Dollars, these coins are the mirage that Seated Quarters are easy to find.  The vast majority of collectors only want one or two for their set and these fill the need.  It is when you try to dig a little deeper that you find (Or don't find) many Seated Quarters.

As far as the LCSS goes, I am a recent member.  I also think the earlier members of this club play a role in the lack of Seated Quarters.  I think the early members recognized the rarity of Seated Quarters in general and salted away many of the attractive, collector grade coins.  Today's collectors are trying to make a meal out of the leftovers from the feast.

As far as personal experience goes, I know very few coin collectors personally but of the seven or eight collectors I know who collect Seated Coins all but one collect Half Dollars.  My own collection features Seated Halves and building a date set was one of my favorite experiences.

Hate to digress, but I must tell you about collector number 8.  He only collects Carson City Seated Dollars.  It felt like he was taking me to see Jimmy Hoffa's body but it was worth it.  Probably the only time in my life I got to see what could be termed a "Collection" of 1873-cc dollars.  He has dozens of Carson Dollars; all raw.  In fact at the time he had just purchased a PCGS F-12 1870-cc Dollar, and because he hates slabs he offered to sell it to me for $400. ME?  ME!  I turned him down because I was going to get a VF or better coin for my collection.  I actually get physically sick every time I think I could be that stupid. 

 

 

[World Colonial]

On 3/24/2023 at 11:45 AM, samclemen3991 said:

I will stand by my statement.  Seated Quarters seem to me to be the poster child for a series that even many of the common coins are hard to find.

Hard to find and actual availability aren't the same thing.

No, Seated quarters as a series aren't common.  But no, your personal experience isn't representative either.  In participating on coin forums and reading the numismatic press for many years, I can't count the number of times I've heard this sentiment.

There are a variety of reasons why any collector doesn't find what they are looking for when it exists.  Usually, it's the price.  Most collectors don't think in these terms because they aren't familiar with much else outside of what they collect.  In the examples I used above, I'm quite confident that the 1830 Capped Head quarter eagle is scarcer than most Seated quarters including in comparable quality, so if five are available right now on Collectors Corner, it should be evident what I am telling you with the relationship to the price is the primary reason.

The second reason is that if you do the math, you will realize there should be no expectation of finding this coinage that often.  If 500 exist for any coin and average holding period is 10 years, this = four coins for sale per month.  That's across thousands of dealers and all auctions, including eBay.

A third reason is that you're looking for mid-grade coins when there might (in some instances) be more AU or MS.  Maybe it's a similar distribution to the 1901-S Barber quarter, which has a lot of low-quality dreck, not hard to buy MS coins, and not many in the middle.  I know that if I look on eBay or Heritage, I'll find most of these dates offered either now or within months to within one year, but potentially not in the quality you want.

On 3/24/2023 at 11:45 AM, samclemen3991 said:

As far as the LCSS goes, I am a recent member.  I also think the earlier members of this club play a role in the lack of Seated Quarters.  I think the early members recognized the rarity of Seated Quarters in general and salted away many of the attractive, collector grade coins.  Today's collectors are trying to make a meal out of the leftovers from the feast.

This isn't unusual.  I have collected my primary interest (a Spanish colonial series) almost exclusively for about 12 years but undoubtedly, others bought many coins I want before I could.  I own somewhere in the vicinity of 1/4 to 1/3 of the better TPG coins (higher excluding the more available dates), so anyone else wanting to collect it now is also partially "locked out".  The difference is there is a lot less to collect from this coinage than practically any US series.

[Sandon]

   I also agree that Liberty Seated coins of each denomination include a number of scarce and rare issues, but they aren't rare as type coins. Each series includes a number of issues that are common in all grades short of Choice to Gem Uncirculated, the latter being high priced due to their demand from higher level type collectors.  You can generally go by their reported mintages.  For the Seated quarters, the common dates include all of the Philadelphia coins dated from 1853 (Arrows & Rays) through 1862 (with the 1855, 59, 60, and 62 being a bit harder to find) and the 1875-77 Philadelphia. The 1876-77 CC and S mints are also relatively common, as are the 1891 and 91-S. You should be able to find at least several of these dates, although often in low grade or impaired condition, at any local coin show or coin shop or online. A number of other issues, including some from before 1853, can't really be called "rare" either.

   The term "rare coin" is relative.  To a non-collector or huckster it might mean any coin you can't expect to find in circulation. To another it might mean key dates of popular series like the 1909-S V.D.B. Lincoln cent or the 1893-S Morgan dollar, even though many thousands of each of these issues are known to exist. To a very wealthy collector it might mean an 1885 Trade dollar or 1913 Liberty nickel (5 of each known to exist) that seldom becomes available for any price. To the condition fanatic it could mean any coin, even a 2022 Lincoln cent, if it has received a high enough grade from a grading service.  For the purposes of this topic, I would define the term rare as a coin that is at least somewhat difficult to find in any collectable grade (but a few of which do tend to turn up at major coin shows and auctions) and a strain on the average collector's budget when found. By this definition, no entire series of Liberty Seated coins can be called "rare".

[zadok]

On 3/24/2023 at 11:45 AM, samclemen3991 said:

I will stand by my statement.  Seated Quarters seem to me to be the poster child for a series that even many of the common coins are hard to find.  I wish I could remember the pundit and his exact words. He wrote something like "Morgan dollars are common coins pretending to be rare coins.  Everyone knows this but nobody cares.  They are big, shiny, can be collected a hundred different ways and there are plenty for everyone.  Seated Dollars are true rare coins but nobody cares.  The vast majority of collectors just hope to get one or two for their collection and there are a few semi-common dates that meet this need."

I think Seated Quarters have a similar relationship with Seated Half dollars.  Seated Halves will never be Morgan's but they are big and shiny , can be collected a hundred different ways and except for a few dates there our plenty for everyone.  Seated Quarters have numerous hard to find dates, some considered rare some considered common.  There are also a few dates that are very common and much like Seated Dollars, these coins are the mirage that Seated Quarters are easy to find.  The vast majority of collectors only want one or two for their set and these fill the need.  It is when you try to dig a little deeper that you find (Or don't find) many Seated Quarters.

As far as the LCSS goes, I am a recent member.  I also think the earlier members of this club play a role in the lack of Seated Quarters.  I think the early members recognized the rarity of Seated Quarters in general and salted away many of the attractive, collector grade coins.  Today's collectors are trying to make a meal out of the leftovers from the feast.

As far as personal experience goes, I know very few coin collectors personally but of the seven or eight collectors I know who collect Seated Coins all but one collect Half Dollars.  My own collection features Seated Halves and building a date set was one of my favorite experiences.

Hate to digress, but I must tell you about collector number 8.  He only collects Carson City Seated Dollars.  It felt like he was taking me to see Jimmy Hoffa's body but it was worth it.  Probably the only time in my life I got to see what could be termed a "Collection" of 1873-cc dollars.  He has dozens of Carson Dollars; all raw.  In fact at the time he had just purchased a PCGS F-12 1870-cc Dollar, and because he hates slabs he offered to sell it to me for $400. ME?  ME!  I turned him down because I was going to get a VF or better coin for my collection.  I actually get physically sick every time I think I could be that stupid. 

 

 

...welcome to the club, im sure over time u will find it very interesting n enlightening re collecting each of the seated series...the quarter series while having more key n semi-key dates is as a series not considered scarce nor rare, but completing it is both challenging n expensive...if ur budget allowed u could probably complete 80% of the series in a years time depending on the grade range u choose...most of the early members r dead so not much "salting away" still going on n most of the charter members were not wealthy collectors so holding on to duplicates didnt happen often, there was considerable trading at the earlier meetings, ive collected seated for 50 years, assembled a few complete sets but only have maybe 25 coins that r duplicates that i have held back more or less as "investment coins"...the rest i dispense with as i upgrade....

[zadok]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:41 PM, World Colonial said:

Wrong about at least some of the Capped Head quarter eagles.  Collectors Corner has five each of the 1830 and 1832, two of the 1831, plus several other dates.  Lists most other early gold up to 1807, in various grades including MS.  Lists 1813, 1814, 1818, and 1834 half eagle.

...i personally was referring to the earlier quarter eagles....

[samclemen3991]

This may be off topic but I wonder if anyone familiar with this board knows the answer.  When I join this page I come to a preset list of topics.  The list, as far as I can tell, is ranked according to the subject that has had the most recent post.  The thread we are currently using is not in that list.  It cannot ,as far as I can find , even be found.  The only way I returned to this topic was that I noticed something called "Notifications" at the top of my screen. Are there private threads on this site?  Or are there alternate pages or some such thing?

 

[Sandon]

@samclemen3991--Your inquiry is off-topic but may be of interest to other readers.

   If you go to the Home page of the chat board (the first page that comes up under "chat board) and select this forum (Newbie Coin Collecting Questions), you will see that as an active topic, it is presently listed near the top of the page. It will "sink" as it becomes less active, but you can continue to follow it by (1) clicking the green plus sign ("+") next to the topic title at the top of the page or (2) using the search bar at the top right of any chat board page to search for pertinent words.

[samclemen3991]

Sandon, thank you for that information, it is very helpful.  James

[World Colonial]

On 3/25/2023 at 6:43 AM, zadok said:

...i personally was referring to the earlier quarter eagles....

I was correcting my prior post.  I thought these coins were harder to find.

As for the earlier ones, I haven't looked often but when I have, seems most of those are available too.  The 1796 "No Stars" is estimated to have 125.  To my recollection, I've seen it every time.