2019 $1 coin with 14 stars, has this come up before 0

[VKurtB]

On 2/12/2023 at 11:48 AM, FrederickMorris said:

Thankfully that is not the case at all. Information, leadership, and process are all keys to understanding our coins, their make up, and design and why so many are turning green or bubbling and worn so much sooner than in the past.

BEP only handles paper currency, never anything to do with coins. Your detachment from reality makes you ideally suited to the clergy. 

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:47 AM, J P M said:

Hear is a thought. The mint is always trying to save a buck.  Perhaps the star coin edge press was used for other older edge lettering and not all of the old lettering was removed enough and there are ghosts impressions left behind.  Kinda like a O over CC die. 

Now that is a thought, I think this one I do need to send in, its really cool and needs to been seen. Might I ask if you have ever seen a a 1946 penny with a missing "L" in liberty and two I's, I have taken really close up photos of the coin to be sure the "I" wasn't just an "L" that had lost its lower half but that do not seem to be the case, photos show the "I": to be an "I" take a look at these and see if you see something different.

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[FrederickMorris]

On 2/12/2023 at 11:51 AM, VKurtB said:

BEP only handles paper currency, never anything to do with coins. Your detachment from reality makes you ideally suited to the clergy. 

What a strangely sad person you must be, I feel sorry for you. The BEP had a great deal to offer and lots of contact information to the mint and other departments. I wish you the best. On to the hunt for coins worth talking about, there so many out there and many still able to find. Best to you all who hunt for those special coins,

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:39 AM, Sandon said:

   I agree!  I have been a collector and student of numismatics for 52 years.  In my experience, only major or spectacular errors, such as coins struck way off center or multiple times in different positions or on wrong planchets, or major die varieties such as the 1955 and 1972 (Redbook variety). doubled die cents and clear "over-mintmarks" ever attract enough attention in the market to be worth a substantial premium. Most of these errors and varieties can be seen with the naked eye or low magnification.  True scarcity is also a major factor in whether a coin ever becomes really valuable.  Hucksters have promoted certain errors or varieties that they own in quantity to make money on them, after which their values tend to decline. Others gain a continuing following among a small minority of collectors, who will pay a modest or moderate premium for them.

   I assume that by "Superman" quarter @FrederickMorris means the 1952 proof quarter with a tiny squiggly line inside one of the eagle's breast feathers that resembles an "S". This is generally known as the "Superbird" variety and is listed in the Cherrypickers' Guide and other detailed references and attributed by grading services.  (I've never heard of and can find no reference to a 1953 "Superbird".)  This is one of those high magnification varieties that has a following among a small minority of collectors.  I recently examined the 1952 proof set that I bought many years ago and found that I had one.  I would not have paid a premium for it then or now.  

   We are dealing daily on these forums with new or casual collectors who claim to have found--or worse purchased for a premium--significant errors or varieties. In most cases, these are coins with post-mint damage or alterations or ugly pieces that were struck from worn dies.  Others are in our opinion minor anomalies such as the barely visible "14th star" on the edge of a modern dollar that originally started this topic and are unlikely ever to carry substantial premiums. We regard this as a consumer protection issue and seek to educate these younger and inexperienced collectors about them.  Others may have different opinions.

   

 

[J P M]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:02 PM, FrederickMorris said:

Now that is a thought, I think this one I do need to send in, its really cool and needs to been seen. Might I ask if you have ever seen a a 1946 penny with a missing "L" in liberty and two I's, I have taken really close up photos of the coin to be sure the "I" wasn't just an "L" that had lost its lower half but that do not seem to be the case, photos show the "I": to be an "I" take a look at these and see if you see something different.

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I have seen many Lincoln cents with the lower part of the L missing it is the first thing to wear off from a coin rolling machine or a grease filled die can make things look like they are missing.

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:09 PM, FrederickMorris said:

 

Good Morning, in reply to the "superman Quarter" known as the Superbird Quarter", I found my first in Germany, given to me in change by an American soldier. I worked at the PX, he told what I thought was a funny story about the quarter so I kept it. Later I found the S he was talking about and then was surprised to find the story he told about the quarter was true. Over the years my brother and I have kept our eyes open for old coins we were getting from the soldiers the real start of our coin collecting came when he was given a hand full of change (1986) by a military guy for something he bought. I saw there were several Indian head pennies. We swooped them out, they were all 1800's and the best one 1877. Never thought much of it as a kid until years later we started really collecting and learned its value. But back to the 1953 Quarter, we have two with the "S" in the middle of the chest and believe there could be the same number out there as the 1952. I read somewhere that they were reportedly only found in Proof sets, or proof coins, none of those we have were ever from proof sets as far as we know. Thank you for the information, its all helpful...   

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:18 PM, J P M said:

I have seen many Lincoln cents with the lower part of the L missing it is the first thing to wear off from a coin rolling machine or a grease filled die can make things look like they are missing.

from x-ray and negatives, it doesn't appear to ever have had a low part. I had thought we would see an out line in the x-ray or negative but none exist, or that we can see with our scope. Is there any sort of solution we can dip it in that will not harm the coin that might revel more details? I know do not clean, would sending it off to be looked at be worth doing?

[J P M]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:30 PM, FrederickMorris said:

from x-ray and negatives, it doesn't appear to ever have had a low part. I had thought we would see an out line in the x-ray or negative but none exist, or that we can see with our scope. Is there any sort of solution we can dip it in that will not harm the coin that might revel more details? I know do not clean, would sending it off to be looked at be worth doing?

Even if it was a error it would not be worth sending it in unless the coin is worth well over $100. Please remember that this coin is almost 80 years old and any evidence that the L was grease filled or shaved off has long past. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by J P M

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/12/2023 at 4:32 PM, J P M said:

Even if it was a error it would not be worth sending it in unless the coin is worth well over $100. Please remember that this coin is almost 80 years old and any evidence that the L was grease filled or shaved off has long past. 

Interesting, if all that is the case, but what if it weren't. What if this additional "I" had somehow slipped in for whatever reason, would it not be of note. Naturally I am totally guessing, but in looking at the other "I" they appear totally the same. Would some who knew the original denominational facts about the letter be able to tell if it had in fact started out as an "L". Here I am totally guessing. I have never seen another coin with a missing L, there has always been so element of the original title to identify, somewhat like the 1955 L penny. It does look clearly like an L but when x-ray and negatives were looked at, one could clearly see that at one time, the D was present but had been reduced to appear like an L but shadow fragments of the D were about to be seen. This is not the case with the "I" on this coin. So leaves me to wonder.

Thank you again for the informative information

MOrris

[Sandon]

On 2/12/2023 at 11:10 PM, FrederickMorris said:

Would some who knew the original denominational facts about the letter be able to tell if it had in fact started out as an "L".

   @FrederickMorris--You seem to be under the impression that each coinage die is made from separate punches for each letter, number and other design element.  This has not been true for any U.S. coins since 1837.   The "L" in "LIBERTY" on your 1946-S Lincoln cent originated with the obverse model for Lincoln cents in use at that time, which as I understand it contained all design elements except the date and mint mark. The same obverse model was used from 1919 through 1968. The model is used to make master dies or "hubs" that include the date for each year. The "hubs" are used to create other or working "hubs" that in turn are used to create each of the numerous coinage dies, on which any mint marks were punched by hand until the early 1990s.  There is simply no way that the die that struck your coin could have started out with an "I" instead of an "L". The appearance of an "I" simply resulted from the bottom of the incuse "L" in the die becoming clogged or worn with use.

   For the U.S. Mint's own description of its current die making process, which is quite similar even though more computerized today, see Die Making | U.S. Mint (usmint.gov) (click on link).

  The only "Superbird" quarters appearing in published guides or of which I have ever heard are proofs from some 1952 proof sets. See photos in NGC VarietyPlus at Washington Quarters (1932-1998) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com) (switch right hand button from "MS" to "PF" and see 1952 "Superbird" varieties listed as FS-901 and FS-902).

  I again request that you post about coins other than 2019 $1 coins with "extra stars" under separate topics, so that other viewers who might be interested will be able to find the discussions about them.

[EagleRJO]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:02 PM, FrederickMorris said:

Now that is a thought, I think this one I do need to send in, its really cool and needs to been seen.

You will lose a lot of money very quickly sending in every coin you think is cool and "needs to be seen" whatever that means, particularly if the value is less than several hundred dollars.  I would get a copy of the attached book to help with values, and the references recommended in the thread by Sandon are also really needed to identify errors and varieties.

Actually if it needs to be seen, the best thing is to keep it as a raw coin and put it in an easy open capsule or after market plastic coin coffin so you can pop that open when it "needs to be seen".  I really don't get the obsession with finding coins that you can "send in".

On 2/12/2023 at 1:18 PM, J P M said:

I have seen many Lincoln cents with the lower part of the L missing it is the first thing to wear off from a coin rolling machine or a grease filled die can make things look like they are missing.

The 1944 to 1982 Lincoln cents are 95% copper which is a very soft metal, and you mentioned in another thread that you have actually seen pieces of these coins knocked lose and displaced, which could be several L's with the lower leg knocked loose to look like an "I".

On 2/12/2023 at 11:10 PM, FrederickMorris said:

Interesting, if all that is the case, but what if it weren't. What if this additional "I" had somehow slipped in for whatever reason, would it not be of note. Naturally I am totally guessing ...

Playing the "what if" game and "guessing" is not the proper method of identifying errors and varieties, and doesn't get you anywhere except spinning around in circles throwing darts at a bullseye blindfolded, while you waste more money submitting low grade coins with PMD that are "interesting", or where you refuse to follow good advice provided.

Furthermore, you have been unwilling to simply look at the edges of coins to determine if they might be incuse extra stars, or provide information the mint conveyed to you about the coins posted even though you make references to that several times.  So I am also not going to responding further until you can at least provide this basic information.

[FrederickMorris]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:30 AM, Sandon said:

   @FrederickMorris--You seem to be under the impression that each coinage die is made from separate punches for each letter, number and other design element.  This has not been true for any U.S. coins since 1837.   The "L" in "LIBERTY" on your 1946-S Lincoln cent originated with the obverse model for Lincoln cents in use at that time, which as I understand it contained all design elements except the date and mint mark. The same obverse model was used from 1919 through 1968. The model is used to make master dies or "hubs" that include the date for each year. The "hubs" are used to create other or working "hubs" that in turn are used to create each of the numerous coinage dies, on which any mint marks were punched by hand until the early 1990s.  There is simply no way that the die that struck your coin could have started out with an "I" instead of an "L". The appearance of an "I" simply resulted from the bottom of the incuse "L" in the die becoming clogged or worn with use.

   For the U.S. Mint's own description of its current die making process, which is quite similar even though more computerized today, see Die Making | U.S. Mint (usmint.gov) (click on link).

  The only "Superbird" quarters appearing in published guides or of which I have ever heard are proofs from some 1952 proof sets. See photos in NGC VarietyPlus at Washington Quarters (1932-1998) | VarietyPlus® | NGC (ngccoin.com) (switch right hand button from "MS" to "PF" and see 1952 "Superbird" varieties listed as FS-901 and FS-902).

  I again request that you post about coins other than 2019 $1 coins with "extra stars" under separate topics, so that other viewers who might be interested will be able to find the discussions about them.

I will be happy to restate under new subject. We have taken the coin with the "L" to several local groups, they are paying to have it sent, they too are stumped as there is no indication at al that the "I" was ever an "L", so time will tell.

[VKurtB]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:22 AM, FrederickMorris said:

I will be happy to restate under new subject. We have taken the coin with the "L" to several local groups, they are paying to have it sent, they too are stumped as there is no indication at al that the "I" was ever an "L", so time will tell.

It was an “L” because that’s all it can be.