Toning or Dirt/Buildup Water Damage? 0

[lcourtney123]

Why would a coin be black around the edges? Chemical toning or possibly age toning or possibly water damage? I am considering grading this but don't really know if it would be a good call or not.

I am having to send photos from my phone to my email to get them on site. This scope has the yellowish pictures. Nothing like a good old phone to take a picture! The coin does have a little luster just seems odd for some reason, however I have never seen tons and tons of coins as collectors have.

[ああ、助かった]

Hi,

this coin has been CLEANED and maybe dipping.

thanks

[Sandon]

   The color of this coin is original for a circulated silver coin, including the darker area near the edge. The bright ones have usually been chemically "cleaned" (bad), polished (bad), or dipped in an anti-tarnish solution (sometimes acceptable in the market if properly done so that it didn't remove too much of the luster or original surface but may reduce the grade). However, based on your photos, the coin appears to have hairlines indicating an old abrasive "cleaning" (bad). The coin may have then retoned.

  Even if the coin isn't "cleaned", it grades somewhere in the VF 30 to XF 40 range. Coin World values (retail) currently list an 1892-O Morgan dollar at $50 in VF 20 and $55 in XF 40. It would cost you nearly that much to submit it to NGC, even as an "economy" submission. Why would you do this?  You should have gained substantial knowledge about the grading and evaluation of coins before you attempt to submit coins yourself.  Have you obtained a current "Redbook", a grading guide, and a monthly publication with coin prices?

[Coinbuf]

The coin in your post has been cleaned and has negatively impacted the value.   This coin is not worth the cost to have graded.

[GoldFinger1969]

LCourt, I have a Morgan Silver Dollar which is over 100 years old.  I bought it clean and you would think if it didn't "turn" or tone in the 100 years it wouldn't do it in the last few.

But it did. 

With silver, ya never know. 

 

 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:15 PM, Sandon said:

... 1892-O Morgan dollar at $50 in VF 20 and $55 in XF 40. It would cost you nearly that much to submit it to NGC, even as an "economy" submission. Why would you do this?

@lcourtney123I also can't imagine why you would submit this coin for grading.  That is a lower value Morgan in what appears to be a VF+ condition (e.g. wear of the hair and eagle's wings) where you would actually be losing money by submitting it to a TPG, and wouldn't make sense unless it was a good BU grade.  It also wouldn't be a good candidate for a registry set requiring graded coins, as it is commonly available in better grades for a reasonable cost.

I wouldn't submit coins for grading unless there is a specific reason to have that done.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:50 PM, lcourtney123 said:

Why would a coin be black around the edges?

Tarnish

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/26/2023 at 2:50 PM, lcourtney123 said:

Why would a coin be black around the edges? Chemical toning or possibly age toning or possibly water damage? I am considering grading this but don't really know if it would be a good call or not.

 

Listen to the experts here on grading.  If you are a beginner, before you buy expensive coins and/or submit your own raw coins for grading.....educate yourself...do LOTS of reading....and buy some quality GRADED coins so you can learn about the coins, the market for them, the history of the pricing of that coin (last few years vs. last 30 years), etc.

Read forum threads here and on other sites on coins you are interested in.  Read some books especially any Whitman Red Books.

As for silver toning or black edges....the reaction of silver to various air elements or other chemicals used (recently) in the striking process explains this.  Plenty of threads here and elsewhere.

On 1/26/2023 at 2:50 PM, lcourtney123 said:

I am having to send photos from my phone to my email to get them on site.

Assuming you have a fairly new smartphone, default settings should be OK to show us decent/good pics, notwithstanding some of the threads we have resurreced in recent days  talking about maximizing photographic perfection.

If you login to the site on your smartphone....you can type the posts HERE on your PC....then add the photos with the EDIT function on your phone if that is where the photos are.  Eliminates transfering the pics to your PC if that is time-consuming.

Edited January 28, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

But it did. 

Slabbed? I now expect slabbed silver coins to tone MORE THAN raw ones do. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 4:09 PM, EagleRJO said:

Tarnish

Silver sulfides, to be more precise. Same thing. 

[Laopowe]

Your breakdown is really informative! It's fascinating how much goes into evaluating coins beyond just their appearance. Learning about grading guides and keeping up with coin prices seems like a smart move before diving into submissions. And hey, if anyone needs assistance with water damage restoration, I've heard good things about these guys - https://www.alldryus.com/texas/cypress-water-damage-restoration/. Water damage can be a real headache, so having reliable resources like that on hand is super helpful.

Edited March 15 by Laopowe

[VKurtB]

On 3/12/2024 at 4:45 AM, Laopowe said:

Your breakdown on toning versus dirt/buildup water damage was really informative! It's fascinating how much goes into evaluating coins beyond just their appearance. I appreciate your advice on avoiding unnecessary submissions to NGC, especially considering the costs involved. Learning about grading guides and keeping up with coin prices seems like a smart move before diving into submissions.

Yes, many things need to precede “diving into submissions”. You are already among the brighter half or even third of beginners. 

[powermad5000]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:50 PM, lcourtney123 said:

Why would a coin be black around the edges?

In some instances Morgan dollars were put into paper rolls. Sometimes there is a reaction to something in the paper and the sliver of the coin, but when you see that effect it will be even around the whole edge of the coin and typically is more on the side of black in the color spectrum. Morgans also can tone in any kind of pattern and the colors can be all over the rainbow, hence those given the moniker Rainbow Morgans. Morgans can even tone from just sitting in a drawer due to moisture in the air.

On your coin, however, I can easily see hairline scratches on both sides of the coin so your coin was harshly cleaned at some point and is now retoning which typically after being cleaned, the coin will not tone in any even pattern or even be even in color as you can see how some of the retoning on your coin is "splotchy" in some areas.

This year and mintmark is not a key or semi key date in the series and a majority of submissions are in the low MS range which means higher quality specimens than the one you have posted are readily available to collectors. I would say your Morgan if sent would grade as VF details - Harshly Cleaned which would make resale of it difficult and there would be some dealers who would decline entirely to take it off of your hands. I would put its value at very slight over melt given its condition. This would make it unfeasable to submit for grading as you would be at a net loss of funds.

Edited March 13 by powermad5000

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:52 PM, powermad5000 said:

.... This would make it unfeasable to submit for grading as you would be at a net loss of funds.

🐓:  unfeasible, adj., not capable of being done or carried out. (no...) infeasible, adv., a problem that has no solution. (not quite...) unviable, adj., not able to work as intended. not able to succeed. (probably.)

Q.A.:  You know Rickey, you're pretty cocky for a rooster!  Don't forget, this guy knows how to play hardball!      

[powermad5000]

I stand corrected! 3:30AM wakeups for the last month and a half have affected my proper usage and command of the English language.

[Halbrook Family]

But how do you tell grime from tarnish or toning? 

[VKurtB]

On 3/17/2024 at 9:01 PM, Halbrook Family said:

But how do you tell grime from tarnish or toning? 

20 years experience. (Only partially kidding.)

[Halbrook Family]

On this coin what is grime vs tarnish? To me it looks like grime mostly. As a rookie I would say at one time it was cleaned by the lines on the left side of the front and the right side of back. 

This site should have little tests to do to get better at self grading. Sure you need the coin in hand to really do it right  but a good picture you can tell lots about a coin. It would be kind of fun to see how good you might get

[powermad5000]

Grime or gunk or dirt will buildup on the surface of the coin and sit above the surface. Toning, while I don't know how thick it actually is (most likely in microns) is basically even with the surface and also it is important to note that light toning will still show the original surface underneath with proper lighting. Dirt, gunk, buildup will not allow the original surface to show through.

[Halbrook Family]

On 3/19/2024 at 3:22 PM, powermad5000 said:

Grime or gunk or dirt will buildup on the surface of the coin and sit above the surface. Toning, while I don't know how thick it actually is (most likely in microns) is basically even with the surface and also it is important to note that light toning will still show the original surface underneath with proper lighting. Dirt, gunk, buildup will not allow the original surface to show through.

Thank you