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Damaged Copper Token?
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Started by EagleRJO,

18 posts in this topic

EagleRJO

EagleRJO

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I saw this copper token listed (CT# 571374) which at first appeared to just have some stains, but there are darker areas where I think there may be more significant damage and missing metal like at 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock, below some stars and at the date. Maybe even all the way through in 2 of those spots depending on the turn.

I'm not that familiar with copper deterioration, as tokens I have are typically brass and I don't collect old copper coins, so I figured I would post it to see what others thought. Is that possibly what is left after "verdigris" is removed?

Also as an aside, it's listed as a "Civil War token" but doesn't have anything to do with the war. I have seen the same wording used with other tokens so I figure it's some kind of marketing gimmick as it really is just Civil War "era" with the date.

s-l400-1.jpg

s-l400.jpg

Edited by EagleRJO
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Sandon

Sandon

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On 1/14/2023 at 2:54 PM, EagleRJO said:

Also as an aside, it's listed as a "Civil War token" but doesn't have anything to do with the war. I have seen the same wording used with other tokens so I figure it's some kind of marketing gimmick as really is just Civil War "era" with the date.

   Civil War tokens are classified into two groups. The first is the "patriotic" Civil War tokens that expressly refer to the war or the preservation of the Union.  The second group are tokens of this period that advertise specific businesses or their goods or services, which are known as Civil War "storecards".  The storecards legitimately relate to the war because they, as well as the patriotic tokens, were issued as substitutes for low denomination coins, which had mostly disappeared from circulation, along with the higher denomination coins. Congress prohibited further issuance of such private tokens in 1864 and authorized the issuance of bronze cents, two cent pieces, and (earlier) fractional currency to deal with the shortage of small change.

  I can't tell whether any scratches or other damage to this token resulted from an attempt to remove corrosion or from other causes.

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EagleRJO

EagleRJO

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On 1/14/2023 at 3:12 PM, Sandon said:

The storecards legitimately relate to the war because they, as well as the patriotic tokens, were issued as substitutes for low denomination coins

So would you possibly receive that token as change at that store, and would they be for a certain amount to use the next time you were there?

Too bad it appears to be in such rough shape after looking a little more closely as I thought it was an interesting one with the Rooster, which I haven't seen on many, and of course a NY store.

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Sandon

Sandon

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On 1/14/2023 at 3:55 PM, EagleRJO said:

So would you possibly receive that token as change at that store, and would they be for a certain amount to use the next time you were there?

 As I understand it, these tokens, though not legal tender, were accepted by many businesses to make change, not just the one that issued them, and actually circulated.  For that matter, I understand that U.S. minor (non-silver or gold) coins weren't legal tender until 1965 and although generally accepted, could also be lawfully refused. Civil War tokens bore no stated value and were valued as agreed by the parties, presumably for one cent apiece on most occasions.

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VKurtB

VKurtB

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On 1/14/2023 at 4:45 PM, Sandon said:

 As I understand it, these tokens, though not legal tender, were accepted by many businesses to make change, not just the one that issued them, and actually circulated.  For that matter, I understand that U.S. minor (non-silver or gold) coins weren't legal tender until 1965 and although generally accepted, could also be lawfully refused. Civil War tokens bore no stated value and were valued as agreed by the parties, presumably for one cent apiece on most occasions.

… and either a cent or half cent for Hard Times tokens. The size comparisons were obvious. Civil War tokens were made all over the Union states. The geographic distribution is amazing. 

Edited by VKurtB
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EagleRJO

EagleRJO

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On 1/14/2023 at 3:12 PM, Sandon said:

 Civil War tokens are classified into two groups. The first is the "patriotic" Civil War tokens that expressly refer to the war or the preservation of the Union.  The second group are tokens of this period that advertise specific businesses or their goods or services, which are known as Civil War "storecards".

I was just picking up an occasional token I found interesting if not to much money while I work on various collections. But it seems like tokens is a distinct collection area for some.  There are over 12,000 tokens listed with TokenCatelog.com just for New York. :whatthe:

For the attached token which I also found interesting, it's not only a coin within a token with the lucky horseshoe (banner) and 4-leaf clover, but the "never go broke" could apply to the penny you have, or a car from the dealership [implying it won't break down].  I have to step away from the catalog, slowly, because I keep seeing ones I think are interesting. :bigsmile:

Token 1949 Anderson Chevrolet NY TC-635095.jpg

Edited by EagleRJO
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J P M

J P M

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There is a couple of my area coin and antique stores that has some of these and 1800's copper love tokens and some Civil War tokens. All are cool and all are $$. I like to look but don't know enough to spend any money. 

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Sandon

Sandon

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   Your Lincoln cent in the aluminum ring is generally referred to as an encased coin, not a token. These items were quite commonly used in the early to mid-twentieth century to commemorate occasions such as world's fairs and other expositions and events and, as here, as advertising. Numismatic organizations have issued them in recent years to commemorate numismatic conventions.

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EagleRJO

EagleRJO

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On 1/15/2023 at 11:45 AM, J P M said:

There is a couple of my area coin and antique stores that has some of these and 1800's copper love tokens and some Civil War tokens. All are cool and all are $$. I like to look but don't know enough to spend any money. 

I know some of them go for big dollars, which I stay away from also.  The tokens I have are generally not very valuable, like the attached for a NY company related to a beard beer mug which I bought for $35.

For some reason @Hoghead515comes to mind when I see the guy with the big beard. (:

1863 NY Civil War Token Lindenmuelle.jpg

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GBrad

GBrad

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On 1/20/2023 at 3:14 PM, VKurtB said:

Well then it’s safe to show Alec Baldwin?

But he "didn't pull the trigger"...... Pfitttt...... Whatever....... Amazing what money can do.  Any of us "mere mortals" would be UNDER the ^& jail!!!!! Don't get me started on that one Kurt....... It's been proven physically impossible that the firearm used COULD NOT discharge on its own.  110% impossible!!! Ok.... back to coins now...... as a firearms advocate and instructor, that entire unfortunate event makes my blood boil.  

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