Patina, toning or damage from oxidation? 1 1

[Walter Holmes]

This 1900 veiled headed Victoria shilling was described as having anthracite and teal cabinet patina. I bought it because I liked the way the silver developed a natural change which appealed to me. My question: Will the coin continue to change in the slab, or will the “patina” protect it in its present condition?

Edited December 9, 2022 by Walter Holmes

[Walter Holmes]

[Walter Holmes]

[Moxie15]

It is difficult to say for certain, but it likely will slow down or stabilize if kept in a proper environment. Rember that all toning, patina, oxidation, or whatever one chooses to call it is caused by being in a bad environment.

It is a nice coin, is it yours?

[Walter Holmes]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:56 AM, Moxie15 said:

It is difficult to say for certain, but it likely will slow down or stabilize if kept in a proper environment. Rember that all toning, patina, oxidation, or whatever one chooses to call it is caused by being in a bad environment.

It is a nice coin, is it yours?

I obtained it last evening on Heritage Auctions. Can’t wait to receive it. Sounds  like I should store it in a museum quality corrosion inhibitor bag to see if the patina will stabilize. 

[Coinbuf]

If or how fast a coin changes color, or as I like to say, tarnishes, is (as noted by Moxie) a factor of how collectors store coins.   Too many collectors and dealers today try and induce rapid toning with improper storage.   That has happened because the market has gone wild for any color, natural, accelerated, or AT which has incentivized this action.   Tarnish or toning as most prefer will continue to progress, the rate of progression is entirely dependent on how it is stored.   Keep it in a cool dry environmentally controlled place and the coin may not show any noticeable progression for many, many years.   Left in a wet, hot place it will progress quickly, perhaps noticeably within a year or less.   But regardless of the storage conditions toning is constantly moving to the terminal black state, remember that slabs are not completely airtight.

Btw, that is a very lovely looking coin, congrats on that addition to your collection.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Coinbuf

[VKurtB]

I’ll try to shorten the above. All toning is corrosion - all of it, without exception. All of it continues at one speed or another. If you like the coin, your job is to slow the process. If you want to scam the hobby, your job is to accelerate it and hope tastes don’t someday switch away from toners. Easy peasy. 

[VKurtB]

If the above post comes across as cynical, trust me, it’s not even HALF as cynical as I intended it. 

[Walter Holmes]

@Moxie15, @Coinbuf, @VKurtB Many thanks  for responding to my inquiry. Although I have never purchased one of the popular toned coins ( over priced with some being very ugly) the earth tones in this Victoria coin were irresistible. I’m quite certain  my bid was too high, but the coin IMO with all its  tarnish, toning, corrosion, etc is exquisite. My end game is to maintain and stabilize its current condition without further degradation. 
 

I also appreciate that some feel it is a nice coin. It is unlike any coin I have seen. 

[zadok]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:42 PM, Walter Holmes said:

@Moxie15, @Coinbuf, @VKurtB Many thanks  for responding to my inquiry. Although I have never purchased one of the popular toned coins ( over priced with some being very ugly) the earth tones in this Victoria coin were irresistible. I’m quite certain  my bid was too high, but the coin IMO with all its  tarnish, toning, corrosion, etc is exquisite. My end game is to maintain and stabilize its current condition without further degradation. 
 

I also appreciate that some feel it is a nice coin. It is unlike any coin I have seen. 

...ur coin's attractive natural coloration is due to oxidation (an electrochemical breakdown of the surface metal mostly due to ts long term exposure to oxygen) corrosion (also a deterioration of the surface metal is usually associated with an excess of moisture in an oxygen environment) on the other hand is mostly referred to as a damaging n usually unattractive resulting feature on a coin's surface...hence, the TPG's normal details "environmental damage" characterization...the former desirable to most the latter not so much....

[VKurtB]

On 12/9/2022 at 5:42 PM, Walter Holmes said:

@Moxie15, @Coinbuf, @VKurtB Many thanks  for responding to my inquiry. Although I have never purchased one of the popular toned coins ( over priced with some being very ugly) the earth tones in this Victoria coin were irresistible. I’m quite certain  my bid was too high, but the coin IMO with all its  tarnish, toning, corrosion, etc is exquisite. My end game is to maintain and stabilize its current condition without further degradation. 
 

I also appreciate that some feel it is a nice coin. It is unlike any coin I have seen. 

I’ll never criticize anyone for going ape on British shillings. It’s one of my specialties too. I have many near 1900, but not that exact date. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by VKurtB

[Just Bob]

You may want to look into these Intercept Shield slab covers:

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[VKurtB]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:08 PM, Just Bob said:

You may want to look into these Intercept Shield slab covers:

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VERY nice products. 

[Buffalo Head]

Some feel toning is to silver what rust is to iron. 
To answer your question.  I feel the coin should be neutralized before being placed into a holder before I would say it will NOT get darker.  My thoughts that I agree with😜 

[NewGuy1]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:35 PM, VKurtB said:

I’ll try to shorten the above. All toning is corrosion - all of it, without exception. All of it continues at one speed or another. If you like the coin, your job is to slow the process. If you want to scam the hobby, your job is to accelerate it and hope tastes don’t someday switch away from toners. Easy peasy. 

I think your right. Can't figure why people pay big bucks for stuff the chemistry guys can make in no time.  I have no idea how people can tel! If a coin has real toning or somebody messed with it to scam people. But what do I know, I'm just an old collector trying to learn new stuff.

Sorry ifpeople who like toned stuff dislike my opinion.  Not trying to make people mad.  Its only my opinion   Collect what you want and be happybtw, that still is a cool looking coin Walter Holmes

How hard is it to learn about fake toning?  Any links or good info out there

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by NewGuy1

[Sandon]

   Tarnish, oxidation or "toning"--whatever you want to call it--is ultimately inevitable for any silver, copper, or nickel alloy coin that is exposed to the atmosphere.  Older coins that have remained brilliant without being "dipped" have usually been stored for most of their existence in bags or rolls surrounded by other coins, with little air getting to them. How quickly and intensely they change likely depends on how they are stored.  A grading service holder or other inert plastic holder should slow down the process considerably, unless there was some corrosive substance already on the coin or the air surrounding it in the holder is humid or polluted. The worst thing you can probably do is "dip" a coin to remove existing toning, as the stripped surface is likely to re-tone rapidly and unattractively, and the "dipping" will mute the coin's original luster.  

   I have stored uncirculated coins of various compositions in Whitman and similar albums housed in safe deposit boxes for decades with all but a few of them developing little or no toning or other deterioration, a notable exception being several copper-plated zinc cents from the 1980s and 90s, which have corroded around the edges. However, I don't recommend album storage for more valuable coins.

   While the classification of various forms of "toning" as "original" or "artificial" and whether or not they are attractive is a subject of much disagreement, I think that most collectors would regard the appearance of the 1900 British shilling as "original" and appealing.  I would store it in its holder in a cool, dry place and, apart from checking on it periodically, leave it alone.    

[numisport]

NGC holders are superior IMO and its possible that your holder is 100 percent air tight. However there would be some air inside the holder as I doubt they draw a vacuum when sealed.

[VKurtB]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:08 AM, numisport said:

NGC holders are superior IMO and its possible that your holder is 100 percent air tight. However there would be some air inside the holder as I doubt they draw a vacuum when sealed.

No slab ever has been 100 percent air tight. They aren’t designed to be and nobody even claims they are. This myth needs to be crushed. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by VKurtB

[numisport]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:27 PM, VKurtB said:

No slab ever has been 100 percent air tight. They aren’t designed to be and nobody even claims they are. This myth needs to be crushed. 

It is possible that a slab is 100 percent air tight. My proof coppers are likely not air tight 

[VKurtB]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:12 AM, numisport said:

It is possible that a slab is 100 percent air tight. My proof coppers are likely not air tight 

I’d bet that none of your slabs are air tight. None of mine are. Gassing coins in slabs is a prime doctoring technique.