Advice on risking $18 for the unknown virtues of "Mint Error" service 0

[Jason Abshier]

@Dascher I haven’t been on here for awhile nice see someone else collecting some German coinage…  As a German coin collector myself . I been at it pretty much for whole 10 years , I did collect here and there in past on German coins not a lot … But I dumped my whole US coins coin collection switched over strictly pretty much German coins …. I see a lot “error” German coins , they really aren’t worth that much at all unlike US error coins that’s more of a “fad” for US coins not so much for world coins 

[Jason Abshier]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:17 AM, Just Bob said:

It depends on who's grading it, honestly.

I've seen "cabinet friction" and "slider" used interchangeably. Market grading would allow for a coin with rub to be low Mint State. In my opinion, though, wear is wear, whether it comes from rubbing back and forth in a cabinet, sliding across a countertop, or rubbing against another coin in someone's pocket. Once the luster is gone from the high points, it isn't truly Mint State anymore. My opinion, of course.

@Just Bob you’re correct I do see a lot German coins that look great ! But the very highest points are somewhat rubbed … I’ve talked to few German coin dealers in Germany they said it was common practice for European collectors to put their coins in coin cabinets the pull slider over the coins it  was in contact with highest point on the coins … also another issues is Cleaned coins ! I see a lot of them as well I guess collectors back then had nasty habit wiping their coins often to keep them pristine but also leaves the coin full hairline marks all over coins … also notice it on Large medals as well !
 

Slider marks usually under a powerful loupe like 30X  will so the marks all  going the same way (directional wise) usually across left to right on the very highest points of the coin it’s usually dead flat mark too … unlike what I call “honest” wear leaves high spots somewhat sorta “roundish” with tiny lines going in all different directions if you look at it under 20-30X loupe or USB camera blow it up … 

but you’re right I agree any type of wear on Highest points of any coin should drop that coin in AU grades ! But I guess NGC and PCGS knows about European coins which were heavily kept in Coin cabinets during that time … We have keep in mind even up to today our European Coin collector brothers and sisters  are not up to par like we are on US market how they store coins and so on (slabbing and grading ect….) Grading standards of European and German coins is nothing like how our grading standards are in US coin market … they probably thing that us US coin collectors are just too picky about coin’s conditions,  but in the end and reality they share the same common thing we do our love for numismatics !  

Edited April 12, 2023 by Jason Abshier

[Dascher]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:27 AM, Jason Abshier said:

@Dascher I haven’t been on here for awhile nice see someone else collecting some German coinage…  As a German coin collector myself . I been at it pretty much for whole 10 years , I did collect here and there in past on German coins not a lot … But I dumped my whole US coins coin collection switched over strictly pretty much German coins …. I see a lot “error” German coins , they really aren’t worth that much at all unlike US error coins that’s more of a “fad” for US coins not so much for world coins 

@Jason Abshier Excellent advice and insight. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond and it's nice to meet another foreign coin enthusiast!

[Jason Abshier]

@Dascher if you like Pfennig coinage or putting a set of pfennig together  so suggest you take look into German empire “Probe” (pattern) coins there’s some nice interesting 25 Pfennig pattern pieces that are easy to find from time to time although a little pricey but worth sending in for grading as well included a picture for reference 

[EagleRJO]

On 4/12/2023 at 8:57 AM, Jason Abshier said:

I do see a lot German coins that look great ! ... another issues is Cleaned coins ! I see a lot of them as well I guess collectors back then had nasty habit wiping their coins often to keep them pristine but also leaves the coin full hairline marks all over coins

Also happens with a lot of older US coins, but seems like it's less common an issue with older German coins I have come across. 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!

The overall grade of any coin is a combination of both the quality of the strike and the amount of wear (or lack of wear), as well as the rim and conditions on both sides of the coin. I do have some graded Pfennigs in my collection and one closer to being this old (1891 10 Pfennig I believe but it is quite worn and not graded). I would think in an MS state the horizontal lines inside the numbers of the 20 would be all separate and distinct. In the closeup photos, I can see some wear at the bottom of the 2 and at the top and bottom of the 0. The doubling appears to be some form of strike doubling as it does not translate to the numbers in the center of the coin (20) or the beaded circle which also would not be a mint error so it is good you changed position on that. The only other thing I note is there is an unevenness of the toning which the coin could have been cleaned in the past and is in the process of retoning which could get it a details grade.

Being you only paid $0.01 for the raw coin, you are way ahead in that area. But it is likely that any profit could be eaten up from the shipping to and from and grading fees. What I note from selling coins is that graded coins tend to sell faster than raw coins. I would hope to be wrong on all my points and would be interested in seeing your return to this post with a photo of the coin in the holder.

[Dascher]

On 4/12/2023 at 12:22 PM, Jason Abshier said:

@Dascher if you like Pfennig coinage or putting a set of pfennig together  so suggest you take look into German empire “Probe” (pattern) coins there’s some nice interesting 25 Pfennig pattern pieces that are easy to find from time to time although a little pricey but worth sending in for grading as well included a picture for reference 

These are definitely cool. I've now got 2 solid years / 200lbs / 25,000+/- cherrypicked foreign coins under my belt, and I have yet to come across one of these bad boys. Well, I've got a great 7 lbs batch coming any minute now so I'll keep my fingers crossed!

[Jason Abshier]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:51 AM, Dascher said:

These are definitely cool. I've now got 2 solid years / 200lbs / 25,000+/- cherrypicked foreign coins under my belt, and I have yet to come across one of these bad boys. Well, I've got a great 7 lbs batch coming any minute now so I'll keep my fingers crossed!

I don’t know if you’ll find German trial strike or patterns in your large batch of coins but who know … They carry a decent price tag even in raw condition but there is a book strictly on German pattern coinage but if you don’t mind it’s written in German …The book itself is a useful catalog and information of German patterns … I also try to collect numismatic books gain as much information as I can on German numismatic some of these books are hard to find I have to order them from overseas sometimes and have them ship to me …. So I have small numismatic library call me old school I’d rather look at hard copies and books than to look something up online find very little information … right now I mostly been putting together a graded set of 2 marks , 3 marks , 5 marks slowly coming along all in Proofs , I might take a break from that some time this year and start collecting German pattern coins and few medals as well I’m looking for a good book on German “table” medals for my library 

if you find any decent condition German Baden coins in your batch of large bulk coins … I might interested if you want to sell , I also collect Raw German coins but usually only in AU-to BU or Gem condition for my raw collection I’m working on … I haven’t been able to find any decent ones that I like on MA-shop or anywhere online it’s a difficult set to put together with all coins in MS condition 

1/2 Kreuzer (KM # 241) 

1 Kreuzer (KM # 242) 

3 Kreuzer silver ( KM # 246)