1959 Wheat Cent Accidentally certified by ANACS back in 1973 -- Cert. #5022 1 1

[CaptHenway]

Just to get this on the record, because the coin and certificate are still out there somewhere, back in 1973 the then relatively new ANACS accidentally certified a "1959 Wheat Cent" with an altered date as genuine. It is not. It has an altered date. I have seen the coin and I agree.

Here is a blurb about the piece that ANACS put out in the Sept., 1975 The Numismatist.

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by CaptHenway
Clarification

[zadok]

...good luck getting the owner to voluntarily return it....

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2022 at 7:32 PM, zadok said:

...good luck getting the owner to voluntarily return it....

Says a ton about SOMEONE’S commitment to ethical behavior, or am I missing the story?

[zadok]

On 11/4/2022 at 4:42 PM, VKurtB said:

Says a ton about SOMEONE’S commitment to ethical behavior, or am I missing the story?

...no, u r rite on...but human nature being in the greedy litigation trends these days would over ride any attempts to be ethical....

[VKurtB]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:18 PM, zadok said:

...no, u r rite on...but human nature being in the greedy litigation trends these days would over ride any attempts to be ethical....

Okay, but I have repeatedly taken literal oaths to act ethically, and I was one of the “frequent flyers” at the House Ethics Office (they gave advice) while working in Harrisburg. I did the same in Berks County as the Election Director. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by VKurtB

[Sandon]

   I assume that this is a different coin from the purported 1959-D wheat cent that has been sold at auction for as much as $50,000 notwithstanding disclosure that ANACS, NGC, and PCGS have all rendered a "no decision" response regarding its authenticity. (The Secret Service thought it was genuine!) See https://www.numismaticnews.net/us-coins/50000-for-a-1959-d-lincoln-cent-mule.   Based upon the photos in that article, it appears to me to have a softened appearance, suggesting that it is a copy made from two different coins.  Does anyone have a photo of the purported 1959 wheat cent to which the ANACS certificate pertains, such as the one on the certificate?

[Henri Charriere]

Respectfully, I don't see what the big deal is. A coin was submitted. An opinion was rendered. The coin was certified. If it had been me, no offense to ANACS, I theoretically would have gotten what I paid for.  What is all this reconsideration and rescission, after the fact? Upon what basis, varmints?

Molon labe!

Edited November 4, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Structure

[VKurtB]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:44 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Respectfully, I don't see what the big deal is. A coin was submitted. An opinion was rendered. The coin was certified. If it had been me, no offense to ANACS, I theoretically would have gotten what I paid for.  What is all this reconsideration and rescission, after the fact? Upon what basis, varmints?

Molon labe!

As we discussed before, the certification was “improvidently granted”. This isn’t a game. The coin got a certification from ANACS that it did not deserve.  

Edited November 5, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:51 PM, VKurtB said:

As we discussed before, the certification was “improvidently granted”. This isn’t a game. The coin got a certification from ANACS that it did not deserve.  

Improvidently granted? I am a newbie! Make it plain! State the matter as it is!  The member received the certification, then what? Triple bypass? What happened? How did it happen? I am clearly missing something here. It was shipped out... and the TPG issued a "recall notice"?  How does that work? How does anyone expect me to sleep at nite not knowing what to expect when an armed deputy U.S. Marshal shows up at my front door demanding I surrender/relinquish care, custody and control of a wayward coin?      

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:51 PM, VKurtB said:

As we discussed.... 

No me!  No me!  Erroneously certified? Improvidently granted? Ingenuous altered date?  You don't think I would remember a discussion about that?  Sure I would, but I don't!  My wife's calling... The Powerball! And now fake stuff dam*ed near midnite. Too many things going on! How many years after the fact this?  I can't sleep!  Where's the answer department?  And they wonder why I consult Roosters!  

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Forgot the emoji; that changes everything.

[bstrauss3]

I would bet, esp. given the age, that ANACS of the time had no leg to stand on.

When you submit a coin, there is a legal contract involved. For our hosts it's right here: https://www.ngccoin.com/legal/terms-and-conditions/

 

3. Customer represents and warrants that it has no knowledge and no reasonable basis for belief that any collectible submitted is not genuine or contains any non-disclosed alterations or restorations, including, but not limited to, trimming, re-coloring, bleaching, power erasing, re-backing, artificially toning, applying or removing punches or stamps, or any other method used to change or enhance the appearance, condition, or content of a collectible (collectively “Tampering” or “Tampered”). Customer acknowledges that Tampering is wrongful and violations of this Section 3 shall entitle Company to compensatory damages and injunctive relief, as appropriate.

18. Customer agrees to return to a Company, at the Company’s expense, any collectible bearing a clerical error made by the Company. A Company will, at its expense, correct the clerical error and return the corrected collectible to Customer. Customer agrees to indemnify, defend and hold Releasees harmless from and against all claims, liabilities and expenses (including reasonable attorneys’ fees) relating to or arising directly or indirectly from Customer’s failure to comply with this Section 18.

19. In the event a collectible submitted by Customer is determined, at any time, to be not genuine or to have been Tampered with, Customer shall provide reasonable cooperation to Company and to any subsequent owner of such collectible, including the reversal of any sales transaction involving Customer and such subsequent owner or intermediate purchaser or transferee.

 

Anyone have the T&Cs from ANACS in 1973????
 

 

[Henri Charriere]

@bstrauss3:

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to look into this for me.

While vaguely aware "terms and conditions" apply and a submission form is a "legal contract," Iike most collectors (I presume) I skip the fine print and keep my fingers crossed hoping for the best.  [I also do not insure submissions as I do not want to draw attention to the package as reflected in the higher cost. On returns, I have no choice.]

An ANACS submission form nearly 50 years old would, in and of itself, be a historical artifact with collector value.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Routine die polishing: correct misspelling.

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2022 at 8:08 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

An ANACS submission form nearly 50 years old would, in and of itself, be a historical artifact with collector value.

Would it really? That makes me very sad, if true. Whatever happened to buy the coin, not the plastic?

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/6/2022 at 10:30 PM, VKurtB said:

Would it really? That makes me very sad, if true. Whatever happened to buy the coin, not the plastic?

Not the coin or the plastic. The vintage submission form from ANACS setting forth its "terms and conditions." I would like to see what their policy was.

[Henri Charriere]

This is probably one of the more interesting appeals to the membership made on this Forum in some time.

A genuine coin, exhibiting post-mint mischief.  And, surprisingly, gentlemen with the oft-touted 150 years of numismatic experience apparently have no information regarding a coin, its holder----or final resting place.  Surely, ANACS must have a library which contains, at the very least, an original copy of one of its earliest submission forms.

As it is, this promises to be a continuation of the enduring mystery surrounding this coin.

[Incidentally, I distinctly recall the changeover of the Lincoln Head cent's reverse to the Lincoln memorial from the wreath (or wheat design as it is commonly referred to among collectors) and, nature being what it is, I am going to take the liberty of making the fantastical claim I began collecting coins around the time of the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon debates. I remember the coin design transition, circa 1959/1960, Alan Shepard's jump spot, 1961, and Marilyn Monroe's departure in 1962.  We're talkin' 60-plus years, here.  I feel better already... ]

Back on Track...  Anyone know the present whereabouts of the 1973 ANACS certification (#5022) of a 1959 wheat cent?

Edited November 8, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Usual die-polishing: restore pronoun.

[VKurtB]

On 11/8/2022 at 5:50 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

This is probably one of the more interesting appeals to the membership made on this Forum in some time.

A genuine coin, exhibiting post-mint mischief.  And, surprisingly, gentlemen with the oft-touted 150 years of numismatic experience apparently have no information regarding a coin, its holder----or final resting place.  Surely, ANACS must have a library which contains, at the very least, an original copy of one of its earliest submission forms.

As it is, this promises to be a continuation of the enduring mystery surrounding this coin.

[Incidentally, I distinctly recall the changeover of the Lincoln Head cent's reverse to the Lincoln memorial from the wreath (or wheat design as it is commonly referred to among collectors) and, nature being what it is, I am going to take the liberty of making the fantastical claim I began collecting coins around the time of the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon debates. I remember the coin design transition, circa 1959/1960, Alan Shepard's jump spot, 1961, and Marilyn Monroe's departure in 1962.  We're talkin' 60-plus years, here.  I feel better already... ]

Back on Track...  Anyone know the present whereabouts of the 1973 ANACS certification (#5022) of a 1959 wheat cent?

It could just as easily be in a landfill created after some tornado or hurricane. Those very early ANACS certs, when the ANA owned ANACS, were trivially easy to open and mess with. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/8/2022 at 9:04 AM, VKurtB said:

It could just as easily be in a landfill created after some tornado or hurricane. Those very early ANACS certs, when the ANA owned ANACS, were trivially easy to open and mess with. 

I am sure the Magna Carta was similarly vulnerable but it has withstood the test of time. Somebody is holding back something. I cannot believe an entire hobby was brought to its knees with a simple inquiry. Where's that guy who declared, I'm "Outta Here"?