Cherry Pickers Post 1 1

[J P M]

Any Thoughts ?  ...This is a odd looking cent. Could it be broken Die or a delamination.  If it was a scratch I would think the rim would be damaged and metal pushed around, also the Zinc would be showing the copper is so thin on the shield cents.

Edited October 8, 2022 by J P M

[VKurtB]

On 10/7/2022 at 1:37 PM, J P M said:

Any Thoughts ?  ...This is a odd looking cent. Could it be broken Die or a delamination.  If it was a scratch I would think the rim would be damaged and metal pushed around, also the Zink would be showing the copper is so thin on the shield cents.

A strike though of some sort maybe? But what?

[J P M]

Maybe the die got all beet up from the feeder finger. It has some straight lines in it. Its all chewed up. ?  

[EagleRJO]

That is an unusual looking penny. I agree it doesn't look like delaminated metal and if those were post mint gouges you would expect there to be more indications of that on the rim and shield [and zinc showing]. Also looks like a chipped die at the shield. I vote for deteriorated or damaged die. Is that a keeper for you or just a curiosity since it doesn't look like an error.?

Edited October 8, 2022 by EagleRJO

[J P M]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:03 PM, EagleRJO said:

That is an unusual looking penny. I agree it doesn't look like delaminated metal and if those were post mint gouges you would expect there to be more indications of that on the rim and shield. Also looks like a chipped die at the shield. I vote for deteriorated or damaged die. Is that a keeper for you or just a curiosity since it doesn't look like an error.?

Yes, I will put it in my coin tin with the die crack and cud coins........  

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:37 PM, J P M said:

the Zink would be showing

It does look like the core is exposed in some areas, in the second pic it seems more evident.

On 10/7/2022 at 5:39 PM, J P M said:

Maybe the die got all beet up from the feeder finger. It has some straight lines in it. Its all chewed up. ?  

 

Doesn't explain the missing details on the shield, and I don't see any damage in the fields on the opposite side of the shield if something scraped across the entire surface of the die. 

Delamination? Maybe. Strike through? Maybe. It's contained within the rim, effected the fields and details, and exposed the core, I think. I'm not sure what happened there but right now I'm thinking PMD. 

[J P M]

Thanks Mike, There are two spots where you can see the core . Those could be hits from circulating that copper layer is very thin. If it was a drag or a push I would think there would be sharp metal build up somewhere and everything is smooth. This is a very common area where die cracks show up on the shield side of the cent. I have found quite a few with early stage cracks but never this big a area. So until I can find another that looks like this I have no idea what to call it other than PMD 

[J P M]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:40 PM, VKurtB said:

A strike though of some sort maybe? But what?

Thanks for your thoughts VKurtB. I am on the fence with this one. I am just calling it PMD for now.

[J P M]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:03 PM, EagleRJO said:

That is an unusual looking penny. I agree it doesn't look like delaminated metal and if those were post mint gouges you would expect there to be more indications of that on the rim and shield [and zinc showing]. Also looks like a chipped die at the shield. I vote for deteriorated or damaged die. Is that a keeper for you or just a curiosity since it doesn't look like an error.?

Thanks for the input Jo.

[EagleRJO]

I'm trying to think this through and not really comming up with many suspects for the "crime".

PMD? Possibly in a few small spots where the core is exposed, particularly if the cladding was thinned in those areas by another cause. But I just don't see how that is mostly PMD without exposing more of the zinc core.

Struck Through? Maybe, but struck through what? Not the usual "suspects" like grease, feeder fingers, screws, cloth, etc. Maybe a broken off piece of metal from the press, but with that profile?

Die Break? Seems like the more likely suspect if a piece of the die broke off leaving a very uneven fracture surface. Particularly since it's in an area prone to die cracks, so maybe it progressed a little further to a broken off piece before it was caught.

I think you have a really interesting puzzler there JP.

Edited October 9, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:43 AM, EagleRJO said:

Die Break? Seems like the more likely suspect if a piece of the die broke off leaving a very uneven fracture surface. Particularly since it's in an area prone to die cracks, so maybe it progressed a little further to a broken off piece before it was caught.

The area in question would be raised above the fields if the die fractured/shattered and a piece fell off, I would also expect to see a clear line of demarcation, and the original surfaces of the flan depending on how much was missing. I'm not on board with the fractured die theory as everything looks incuse to me. JP would have to confirm that though. 

If the die had fractured, but retained the piece, the complete design of the shield would still be visible but with a crack running through, if retained and collapsed you'd have the same scenario as above. 

I was maybe thinking a defective flan but I wouldn't expect full rims in that area and the metal flow doesn't look right. Now that I'm looking at it again, I don't like this as a strike through either as the area in question is to "jagged" as the striking pressure would have smoothed/rounded everything out more, most likely. Unless it was a strike through causing a delam.?  

I'm thinking about this too much now, time for me to let it be.  If I had received this one in change I would have looked at, thought corrosion and damage, and chucked it in the cup holder. 

Good luck figuring this one out guys.

[J P M]

On 10/8/2022 at 10:17 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

The area in question would be raised above the fields if the die fractured/shattered and a piece fell off, I would also expect to see a clear line of demarcation, and the original surfaces of the flan depending on how much was missing. I'm not on board with the fractured die theory as everything looks incuse to me. JP would have to confirm that though. 

If the die had fractured, but retained the piece, the complete design of the shield would still be visible but with a crack running through, if retained and collapsed you'd have the same scenario as above. 

I was maybe thinking a defective flan but I wouldn't expect full rims in that area and the metal flow doesn't look right. Now that I'm looking at it again, I don't like this as a strike through either as the area in question is to "jagged" as the striking pressure would have smoothed/rounded everything out more, most likely. Unless it was a strike through causing a delam.?  

I'm thinking about this too much now, time for me to let it be.  If I had received this one in change I would have looked at, thought corrosion and damage, and chucked it in the cup holder. 

Good luck figuring this one out guys.

LoL Mike. whatever caused it has left the impressions lower than the field. Here is the highlighted areas of the field that are higher. So a broken die is out. Maybe a partly capped die with gouges in it or some void in the zinc  It still is just a mess. I don't want anyone to loose sleep on it. Please . LoL  

Edited October 8, 2022 by J P M

[EagleRJO]

Hmmm, lower than the fields so yea die break is out. What does that leave? Strike through or capped die? But with those raised areas remaining? Alien ray gun blaster damage? I give up ... until I try to go to sleep later. Thanks JP. 😜 

Edited October 8, 2022 by EagleRJO

[DWLange]

It looks...interesting. If submitted to NGC I would include Mint Error service, not VarietyPlus.

[EagleRJO]

On 10/9/2022 at 2:34 PM, DWLange said:

It looks...interesting

Note the dramatic pause!