New 1922-S double eagle variety 0

[RWB]

Here are composite and detail photos of a new 1922-S double eagle variety. This coin is in Heritage's October auction. [Sale #1349 Lot #4128]

Notice the extremely crude obverse and reverse grinding made in an attempt to remove clash marks. The vertical slash through the date is a remnant clash mark. There are also remains of the clash under the eagle's breast. Reverse has a long die crack through the eagle's beak - a common location for circumferential cracks. [Added image of NGC variety VP-002 mentioned by Mr. Lange.]

Edited September 14, 2022 by RWB

[Fenntucky Mike]

Link to the coin/auction.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/double-eagles/1922-s-20-ms63-ngc-pcgs-9174-/a/1349-4128.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

[zadok]

...i guess the only real question is..."is it a variety or is it a die state?"...i could see a case for either, perhaps DWL will provide his take on the matter....

[RWB]

For the introductory purposes of the DE book, this is a visually distinct variety. For SG DE many dies were used but only a few coins exist to represent each pair - and most pairs probably do not have any remaining coins.

[DWLange]

NGC's VarietyPlus has one similar already, and it may be the same die:

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/gold-double-eagles/saint-gaudens-20-1907-1933/820273/

[RWB]

Thanks!

The NGC photo VP-002 was added to the original post. After accounting for different lighting, the two are likely the same. Would want to see the upper obverse and reverse below eagle to verify. Have updated my dB file.

[DWLange]

I'm afraid that this coin is no longer in-house for taking additional photos.

[RWB]

Everything in the date area matches. We can hope the NGC coin owner sees this post and responds.

[zadok]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:33 AM, DWLange said:

NGC's VarietyPlus has one similar already, and it may be the same die:

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/gold-double-eagles/saint-gaudens-20-1907-1933/820273/

...i guess the question is now officially answered....

[GoldFinger1969]

Can someone expound on "die state" vs. variety ?

[zadok]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:16 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Can someone expound on "die state" vs. variety ?

...basically...different dies or same dies...for example 1845 liberty seated qrt n 1845/45 liberty seated qrt...different dies different variety, could also be when one of the dies is changed out n the subsequent coins r now from a different die pair, again different variety...die state is usually coins from same pair of dies demonstrating die wear erosion or expanding die cracks, but all coins from same pair of dies...in this instance its a bit confusing, apparently the newly discovered coin with all the die polishing is from the same die pair that apparently was used to strike other coins before the die polishing since the polishing is being referred to as removing clash marks, if clash marks n not simple damage to the dies then it would indicate the dies were used...i guess the definitive answer will be if the remaining marks actually align correctly to verify clash marks n not random damage...if in fact clash marks then the different coins would be from the same die pair, perhaps since the polishing of the dies isnt really die erosion from use that lends to classifying this as a variety n not a die state??? DWL is the source for that explanation...hopefully this reply assists n doesnt confuse....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/13/2022 at 12:18 PM, RWB said:

Here are composite and detail photos of a new 1922-S double eagle variety. 

Roger, you have posted many times that you think the marketing stuff on labels is just that -- marketing.  Even if true, you think it is insignificant in many cases.

Curious as to how significant you think this coin's pedigree is.

[RWB]

The provenance of most coin varieties is insignificant. Only the most unusual, such as the 1922-S filed die, attract higher prices and greater interest.