Very last type 1 silver eagle 1 1

[Hoghead515]

Anyone see this? The very last type 1 silver eagle sold for $85,000. That blows my mind. Theres a article about it on google from coinweek.com.

[Sandon]

   As these coins are indistinguishable from any others of their date and type, the purchasers paid for what was printed on the little paper grading service tags, not for the coins themselves.  They're assuming that the mint and the grading services kept the coins in their actual striking order, but there is no way to tell whether or not they actually did. People should be free to collect whatever they want and spend whatever they want on it, but this activity can't properly be referred to as numismatics, the study of things used as money, or even as coin collecting, since it isn't the coin that is really being collected. 

[Henri Charriere]

@Sandon:

Granted, I do not know the first thing about coins. My thought them morphs into... wait a minute, what purpose would publicizing something like this serve? I believe our @RWB, based on what he has weighed in on previously as regarding a somewhat related matter, would summarily declare there is no way to prove the assertions being made--First Type 2, Last Type 1--and consequently, would dismiss the whole kit and kaboodle.  I am inclined to agree. After all, if I were the Mint employee, there at the moment of birth, what credence could anyone place in Q.A.'s specious, uncorroborated, undocumentable claim? I don't know about anyone else, but @RWB's line of reasoning is bold, but unassailable. Drawing on that alone, I have just saved myself, let's see now, $170,000.     

[RWB]

On 9/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

would dismiss the whole kit and kaboodle.

Yes, I would dismiss the Kit, Kat, and Kaboodle. Nothing more than a crass ripoff. Not something expected of either the U.S. Mint or Stacks-Bowers.

[zadok]

On 9/3/2022 at 6:51 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

@Sandon:

Granted, I do not know the first thing about coins. My thought them morphs into... wait a minute, what purpose would publicizing something like this serve? I believe our @RWB, based on what he has weighed in on previously as regarding a somewhat related matter, would summarily declare there is no way to prove the assertions being made--First Type 2, Last Type 1--and consequently, would dismiss the whole kit and kaboodle.  I am inclined to agree. After all, if I were the Mint employee, there at the moment of birth, what credence could anyone place in Q.A.'s specious, uncorroborated, undocumentable claim? I don't know about anyone else, but @RWB's line of reasoning is bold, but unassailable. Drawing on that alone, I have just saved myself, let's see now, $170,000.     

...unassailable...everything is subject to questions, but part of the word is correct...in principle the value of this item is certainly subject to question, but im relatively certain the striking sequence is well documented....

[zadok]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:41 AM, Hoghead515 said:

Anyone see this? The very last type 1 silver eagle sold for $85,000. That blows my mind. Theres a article about it on google from coinweek.com.

...agree, seems like a lot of money for what u get....

[Tyrock]

Didn't expect that from Stack's Bowers and I'd rather spend that money on a truly rare gold coin. It seems many people are "buying the holder and not the coin."

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:04 PM, zadok said:

...., but im relatively certain the striking sequence is well documented....

I thought so, too, but our resident scholar, without saying why, made his bold assertion--I believe this was in connection to a sealed Mint bag, within a sealed bag, of 1964 half-dollars, and upon reflection I thought, he was absolutely right! And mind you, the unveiling took place, on camera, before your very eyes. But could you or I perform the same "documented" exhumation?  I cannot, but somebody else very well could. It's a part of human nature: seeing is believing, right? But does that constitute conclusive documentation?  My lying eyes say, indubitably. But the bar or threshold for incontestable truth is higher.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Usual die polishing: subject/verb agreement, typo.

[zadok]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:02 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

I thought so, too, but our resident scholar, without saying why, made his bold assertion--I believe this was in connection to a sealed Mint bag, within a sealed bag, of 1964 half-dollars, and upon reflection I thought, he was absolutely right! And mind you, the unveiling took place, on camera, before your very eyes. But could you or I perform the same "documented" exhumation?  I cannot, but somebody else very well could. It's a part of human nature: seeing is believing, right? But does that constitute conclusive documentation?  My lying eyes say, indubitably. But the bar or threshold for incontestable truth is higher.

...apples n oranges, not same thing....by the way, not "our" resident scholar, ur resident scholar i dont share ur accolades....

[Henri Charriere]

[I don't like the way this story ends.  I want something a little more upbeat.  THE GENTLEMAN IS OUR NATIONAL TREASURE AND HE RESIDES RIGHT HERE ON OUR FORUM! There.  I said it.]   🐓 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:44 AM, zadok said:

...apples n oranges, not same thing....by the way, not "our" resident scholar, ur resident scholar i dont share ur accolades....

I suggest you re-read what you'd previously written, as recorded in a prior post hereinabove, and preserved, in perpetuity.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:04 PM, zadok said:

... im relatively certain the striking sequence is well documented

Prior to 2021 I may have agreed with this based on the reputation of the mint. If they wrote down that a certain coin was in fact the very last T1 or the very first T2 ASE it would have had some credibility. Now, I'm not so sure.

It appears the US Mint has gone woke, like many other US agencies, and the quality of products and reputation of the mint is now just a passing thought. Lack of planning and attention to details, mishandling of blanks and mistakes in the minting process have resulted in coins with very poor strikes, capsules that coins simply fall out of, dollar store like presentation boxes, botched blank orders (with preference going to DEI coins while collector coins like the Morgans are scraped), and now milk spots appearing on ASEs.

Given the poor reputation of the mint lately how does anyone really know if the new coin press operator they hired to meet DEI quotas didn't just grab a coin out of the bin and call it good after mistakenly cranking out dozens before realizing what they did.

I have looked, but have not been able to find any credible documentation of these reportedly special coins with unique identifying information about those coins that would be sufficient if you actually took these coins out of the slabs and held them in your hands. And I seriously doubt any such documentation exists given the way things at the mint have been going lately.

Sorry for the rant, but in addition to throwing in my 2 cents I wanted to vent a little as a long time ASE collector so completely fed up with the US Mint to the point where I am canceling almost all of my subscriptions.

[EagleRJO]

P.S. The only subscriptions I am keeping (for now) are low end inexpensive sets or proofs, such that when (not if) they start botching those too its not such a big deal or loss. 😉

[Henri Charriere]

@EagleRJO:

Me thinketh there is vast, unexploreth substance to your vent.  You clearly articulate thoughts other members are only content with entertaining. I don't know precisely when my disenchantment boileth over, but suffice it to say, dispensing with the engraver's art in favor of adopting computer-generated fonts did not win the USM any friends. 

[EagleRJO]

Yea, add that to the list too. CG elements with the weak strikes creates like a mushy fake like appearance to some of the coins. And then you have the rocket scientist who decided to only put the year and mint mark on the lettered edge of some recent coins where after some usual dings from circulation those things become unreadable. Smh

[Henri Charriere]

[Slightly off-tangent:  I was disappointed with the one five-ounce coin I got with the Washington quarter obverse.  Why?  Let me put it this way: a [precious metal] coin without reeds is like a coin without denticles.  And when you've got something that weighs 5 ozs., it looks dull and shabby.]

[karl novak]

A few thoughts.........I'd like to know who owned these coins before the auction, how they came about them (all four of them) and who got the money from the auction?  Not only that, but it seems the SECOND produced Type 2 SE was an MS69 and sold for $11,000.  Hence those struck after it would surely grade as 69's or less, correct? Also, who authorized for these "historic" coins to be auctioned off? Wouldn't they have been better off in the Smithsonian or a major coin museum? Seems someone made a LOT of money......and it would be nice to know who.  JMHO (just my humble opinion)   

[zadok]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:02 PM, karl novak said:

A few thoughts.........I'd like to know who owned these coins before the auction, how they came about them (all four of them) and who got the money from the auction?  Not only that, but it seems the SECOND produced Type 2 SE was an MS69 and sold for $11,000.  Hence those struck after it would surely grade as 69's or less, correct? Also, who authorized for these "historic" coins to be auctioned off? Wouldn't they have been better off in the Smithsonian or a major coin museum? Seems someone made a LOT of money......and it would be nice to know who.  JMHO (just my humble opinion)   

...no, the striking sequence of coins does not dictate or determine the actual grades of the coins, a ms70 coin could be struck after a ms69 coin...the owner of the coins was the US mint, supposedly the money generated returned to the US gov't in some capacity...stack's & bowers waived their buyers fees on the coins....

[karl novak]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:55 PM, zadok said:

...no, the striking sequence of coins does not dictate or determine the actual grades of the coins, a ms70 coin could be struck after a ms69 coin...the owner of the coins was the US mint, supposedly the money generated returned to the US gov't in some capacity...stack's & bowers waived their buyers fees on the coins....

Interesting...since the same pressure and dies are used. Would seem the die would deteriorate with each striking....but it does strike me as odd the second coin struck would be an MS 69. Cheers! 

[zadok]

On 10/14/2022 at 1:19 PM, karl novak said:

Interesting...since the same pressure and dies are used. Would seem the die would deteriorate with each striking....but it does strike me as odd the second coin struck would be an MS 69. Cheers! 

...for example, those bulk master boxes that r sent in often have coins 68,69,70s n most those coins struck in sequence, every coin is different in one way or another....