Charmy's BIG HUGE 2022 CHICAGO ANA WORLD'S FAIR OF MONEY SHOW w/tons of Pics! 2 2

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:12 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Beat by a distracted guard ?  By people blending in ?  Sorry, that is amateur hour.  This is EXACTLY what you pay a security firm to prevent.

Nobody is coming through the skylight on a rope like Tom Cruise in MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  My friend works security for one of the Top 50 wealthiest people in the U.S.....their procedures are all geared to stop this stuff and consider it 1st Level entries.  They are prepared for 2 levels higher, much more sophisticated, like professional military and/or security folks.

...and this security detail covers just how many acres of ground?...a few hundred sq ft?....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:26 AM, zadok said:

...and this security detail covers just how many acres of ground?...a few hundred sq ft?....

90,000 square feet. 

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:30 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

90,000 square feet. 

...thats 900' by 100'...i know people with dog runs bigger than that....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:35 AM, zadok said:

...thats 900' by 100'...i know people with dog runs bigger than that....

My major point remains:  hire TOP NOTCH security people and this incident never happens.  They stole the ENTIRE case in broad daylight....it's not like someone helped themselves to a 5-finger discount of a watch or two.  There is no way an entire case (which can't fit into a pants pocket) should leave on motorized vehicle past security.

You can also have cameras rigged to take pictures of anyone who crosses an electronic beam.

[GoldFinger1969]

BTW Zad, I've seen very few dog parks/runs that are larger than 900x100.  Most are about 200x100.  The one near my parents in South Jersey has one approximating your dimensions, maybe even more.  But that's the outlier among the dozen or so dog parks I've visited.

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

BTW Zad, I've seen very few dog parks/runs that are larger than 900x100.  Most are about 200x100.  The one near my parents in South Jersey has one approximating your dimensions, maybe even more.  But that's the outlier among the dozen or so dog parks I've visited.

...we got bigger dogs....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/27/2022 at 6:00 PM, zadok said:

...we got bigger dogs....

Well, my guy above is 15 pounds.

Maybe I can rent him out to the ANA as an attack dog ? 

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 1:32 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, my guy above is 15 pounds.

Maybe I can rent him out to the ANA as an attack dog ? 

he be more attack than ones they didnt have...but looks like he mite get distracted if u scratch his ears....

[VKurtB]

On 8/26/2022 at 11:12 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Beat by a distracted guard ?  By people blending in ?  Sorry, that is amateur hour.  This is EXACTLY what you pay a security firm to prevent.

Nobody is coming through the skylight on a rope like Tom Cruise in MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  My friend works security for one of the Top 50 wealthiest people in the U.S.....their procedures are all geared to stop this stuff and consider it 1st Level entries.  They are prepared for 2 levels higher, much more sophisticated, like professional military and/or security folks.

I’ve gotta be brutally honest here, @GoldFinger1969.  You’re REALLY GOOD at making completely unsubstantiated claims and outright lies about the security firm hired by the ANA. I guess that shouldn’t surprise me, being an RWB fan as much as you are. Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative, right? Pffft! Just fricken’ STOP IT, dude. You’re coming off as a horse’s patoot now. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:52 PM, VKurtB said:

I’ve gotta be brutally honest here, @GoldFinger1969.  You’re REALLY GOOD at making completely unsubstantiated claims and outright lies about the security firm hired by the ANA. I guess that shouldn’t surprise me, being an RWB fan as much as you are. Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative, right? Pffft! Just fricken’ STOP IT, dude. You’re coming off as a horse’s patoot now. 

...u know its not a real robbery unless it has footnotes...insurance company gonna want see archival documentation of how when n by whom the watches made....

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:39 PM, zadok said:

...u know its not a real robbery unless it has footnotes...insurance company gonna want see archival documentation of how when n by whom the watches made....

NARA’s have been in the news lately, and not in a good way. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:39 PM, zadok said:

...u know its not a real robbery unless it has footnotes...insurance company gonna want see archival documentation of how when n by whom the watches made....

Actual letters transcribed by hand in notebooks, I hear. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:52 PM, VKurtB said:

I’ve gotta be brutally honest here, @GoldFinger1969.  You’re REALLY GOOD at making completely unsubstantiated claims and outright lies about the security firm hired by the ANA. I guess that shouldn’t surprise me, being an RWB fan as much as you are. Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative, right? Pffft! Just fricken’ STOP IT, dude. You’re coming off as a horse’s patoot now. 

It's my OPINION Kurt...based on the facts we have to date and the accounts of what happened...so yeah, of course it's not gospel.  But it's not "unsubstantiated" or lies, either.

Having worked security alongside professionals I picked up a few tidbits.  I have friends who perform personal and property security for some of the country's wealthiest individuals.  So it's not just BS, OK ?  But I'm willing to let the ANA and their security firm divulge what went wrong and if I am wrong, I'll admit it and apologize.  How's that ?

What do you want to bet both parties say nothing ? 

And RWB has nothing to do with this issue or my opinion on it, but to the extent you have a professional or personal disagreement with him, that is even more "unsubstantiated" than my opinion.  Considering he's one of the country's foremost numismatic authors/researchers and has written numerous scholarly books, your "opinion" doesn't hold water. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 8/28/2022 at 6:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

What do you want to bet both parties say nothing ? 

Publicly, no. But I will hear eventually. If I had to bet right now, today, I’d bet it was an insider insurance fraud scam. The fact is that PPI Security is one of the top valuable items security firms in the entire nation, not a bunch of part-timers. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

“Considering he's one of the country's foremost numismatic authors/researchers and has written numerous scholarly books,”

Outside of his contribution to the Whitman series for his Peace Dollar tome, he’s a “vanity published” author, nothing more. Virtually ALL of his other scholarly stuff can be learned by going into the The Numismatist archives, but you need to be an ANA member to access that. I really don’t find his posting of personal letters of 150 years ago particularly scholarly at all. As I wrote about a year ago, it’s largely regurgitation. 

Just because YOU didn’t know it before he put it before you, or HE didn’t know it before rummaging through NARA boxes, that doesn’t mean it’s not previously known, and AVAILABLE. There is SOOOO much out there in the literature, but I guess some people need to be spoon fed. Whatever.

Go to a Kolbe and Fanning book auction at a NYINC some year. The numismatic books on offer literally fill a room. There is no shortage of information. But yes, most of it is NOT online, and sadly, much that is online is really hard to navigate. The Newman portal for example. 
 

There was at least one dealer at Rosemont whose booth was corner to corner stocked FULL with historic numismatic books, but yes, you have to hunt the ducks where the ducks are. You can’t sit behind a monitor. 

I’m tempted to start downgrading exhibits with websites in their bibliographies. It exhibits a lack of seriousness. It absolutely speaks to academic laziness. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:07 PM, VKurtB said:

Publicly, no. But I will hear eventually. If I had to bet right now, today, I’d bet it was an insider insurance fraud scam. The fact is that PPI Security is one of the top valuable items security firms in the entire nation, not a bunch of part-timers. 

Could be insurance scam, but I'm betting no.  I'm betting higher-end smash-and-grab types looking to sell this stuff on Ebay, Craigslist, or even Alibaba.

I'll wait for the autopsy. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:10 PM, VKurtB said:

“Considering he's one of the country's foremost numismatic authors/researchers and has written numerous scholarly books,” Outside of his contribution to the Whitman series for his Peace Dollar tome, he’s a “vanity published” author, nothing more. Virtually ALL of his other scholarly stuff can be learned by going into the The Numismatist archives, but you need to be an ANA member to access that. I really don’t find his posting of personal letters of 150 years ago particularly scholarly at all. As I wrote about a year ago, it’s largely regurgitation. 

Just because YOU didn’t know it before he put it before you, or HE didn’t know it before rummaging through NARA boxes, that doesn’t mean it’s not previously known, and AVAILABLE. There is SOOOO much out there in the literature, but I guess some people need to be spoon fed. Whatever. Go to a Kolbe and Fanning book auction at a NYINC some year. The numismatic books on offer literally fill a room. There is no shortage of information. But yes, most of it is NOT online, and sadly, much that is online is really hard to navigate. The Newman portal for example. 
There was at least one dealer at Rosemont whose booth was corner to corner stocked FULL with historic numismatic books, but yes, you have to hunt the ducks where the ducks are. You can’t sit behind a monitor. 

I’m tempted to start downgrading exhibits with websites in their bibliographies. It exhibits a lack of seriousness. It absolutely speaks to academic laziness. 

Your choice is YOUR choice.  I'm not denigrating it, so why should you denigrate others ?  I disagreed with your legal views on the 1933 Saint, but that didn't prevent me from LIKING your posts that were 180 degrees opposite mine on these forums.  I can appreciate someone's POV even if I disagree with it.  

So even if Roger's style is not your cup of tea, it doesn't mean you have to attack it.  That said, if you want to, fine.  Doesn't negatively impact me.

I think his other books -- most of which I HAVE NOT read -- are very good reads, full of information, and they've gotten good reviews from folks on these and other forums.  And while I am glad you gave him his due for the Peace Dollar book the amount of work on his SAINTS DOUBLE EAGLES book probably dwarfs that (but I haven't read the Peace Dollar book so I'm taking a leap of faith ).  It's a great book and I'd say that even if I didn't have an interest in Saints and/or Double Eagles.   The fact that we have a thread on the book and it's approaching 70 pages (not all the posts by me ) shows that the book and the topic got people talking about coins....and isn't that why we are all here for, Kurt ?

BTW, I found FMTM very tedious by comparision....much more difficult to read...but still a damn good book and if that topic in that detail is what interests you, you're gonna love FMTM.  Just because I didn't like it as much as his Saints book doesn't mean it stinks.  Not every book by a favorite author or every film by your favorite actor or actress is going to get an A+. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[zadok]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:40 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's my OPINION Kurt...based on the facts we have to date and the accounts of what happened...so yeah, of course it's not gospel.  But it's not "unsubstantiated" or lies, either.

Having worked security alongside professionals I picked up a few tidbits.  I have friends who perform personal and property security for some of the country's wealthiest individuals.  So it's not just BS, OK ?  But I'm willing to let the ANA and their security firm divulge what went wrong and if I am wrong, I'll admit it and apologize.  How's that ?

What do you want to bet both parties say nothing ? 

And RWB has nothing to do with this issue or my opinion on it, but to the extent you have a professional or personal disagreement with him, that is even more "unsubstantiated" than my opinion.  Considering he's one of the country's foremost numismatic authors/researchers and has written numerous scholarly books, your "opinion" doesn't hold water. 

...foremost????....not sure where u get all ur adjectives from...classic, serious etc...i guess ur just a superlative type of guy?...but to each his own, but dont assume that ur expressed opinion is universally shared, the numismatic community is fairly broad n encompasses much more than just compilations, it also encompasses many researchers that perform actual original research n dont just forage archival correspondence, thats where valuable "new" numismatic information actually useful to collectors originates...as for ur assessment on no revealing comments from either party on the theft i suspect u r correct there....

[VKurtB]

On 8/29/2022 at 8:28 AM, zadok said:

...foremost????....not sure where u get all ur adjectives from...classic, serious etc...i guess ur just a superlative type of guy?...but to each his own, but dont assume that ur expressed opinion is universally shared, the numismatic community is fairly broad n encompasses much more than just compilations, it also encompasses many researchers that perform actual original research n dont just forage archival correspondence, thats where valuable "new" numismatic information actually useful to collectors originates...as for ur assessment on no revealing comments from either party on the theft i suspect u r correct there....

Foremost might even be correct, outside of the QDB universe. It speaks to the paucity of the current market for numismatic books. Everyone expects information and authorship to be gratis, and it can’t be sustained that way. We used to understand that. We’ve gotten dumber. 

[The Penny Lady]

Hey guys, while I appreciate spirited discussions, I think this has gotten quite a bit off topic. Would you mind starting a separate thread if you'd like to continue this discussion. Thank you. ;-) 

[zadok]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:29 AM, The Penny Lady said:

Hey guys, while I appreciate spirited discussions, I think this has gotten quite a bit off topic. Would you mind starting a separate thread if you'd like to continue this discussion. Thank you. ;-) 

...yes maam, we will try do better...u know us gentlemen(loosely)...get carried away so easy...especially since i view ur travelog as one most hobby informative on the forum....

[zadok]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:29 AM, The Penny Lady said:

Hey guys, while I appreciate spirited discussions, I think this has gotten quite a bit off topic. Would you mind starting a separate thread if you'd like to continue this discussion. Thank you. ;-) 

...one more thing n then ill shut up...reviewing ur original comments u were so prescient bout not going into the theft et al n cautioned where it would lead, guess we should have listened closer....

[The Penny Lady]

Thank you so much for understanding!

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:39 PM, The Penny Lady said:

Thank you so much for understanding!

Since you want to steer this back to the OP (a valid request)....let me ask you if you are seeing more beginners/newcomers who got into coins during Covid at these big national shows like ANA ?  What about at more local shows you might attend in Southern California ?

I'm sure you talk to other dealers...are they finding out that the Covid boom has some staying power as folks stick with it as things return to normal ?  Initially, everybody said 2020 and 2021 was GREAT for business -- probably the only ones besides stay-at-home stocks/businesses that benefitted from the shutdown of 2020.

Interested in any feedback you can provide, Charmy. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[The Penny Lady]

I'm seeing about the same amount of young folks (both in their 20's and minors with their parents) now at shows as before Covid. I believe there are a lot more younger people involved in numismatics than come to shows as they would need their parents to take them, which is an added expense if they have to fly, etc. Although in my opinion there is no better venue to learn about numismatics than in person at shows or the Summer Seminar, younger folks seem to enjoy dealing/buying/perusing/learning about numismatics on their computers than at shows. There are several in their 20's who like to walk the floor buying and selling to other dealers, many of whom are already very savvy. I personally deal with a handful of young men who know what I like and bring coins to me that they either have on memo from other dealers or bought at the show just to turn over. I like seeing this as it takes a lot of smarts to be able to do this and make money.

Edited August 29, 2022 by The Penny Lady

[GoldFinger1969]

deleted

Edited August 29, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:34 PM, The Penny Lady said:

I'm seeing about the same amount of young folks (both in their 20's and minors with their parents) now at shows as before Covid. I believe there are a lot more younger people involved in numismatics than come to shows as they would need their parents to take them, which is an added expense if they have to fly, etc. Although in my opinion there is no better venue to learn about numismatics than in person at shows or the Summer Seminar, younger folks seem to enjoy dealing/buying/perusing/learning about numismatics on their computers than at shows. There are several in their 20's who like to walk the floor buying and selling to other dealers, many of whom are already very savvy. I personally deal with a handful of young men who know what I like and bring coins to me that they either have on memo from other dealers or bought at the show just to turn over. I like seeing this as it takes a lot of smarts to be able to do this and make money.

This seems to be the idea  behind Dealer Day. Does it work that way for you?

[Henri Charriere]

🐓 :  You sure you want to weigh in on this, now?

Q.A.:  On second thought, No!  Desecrating a thread like this would be criminal.  Besides, the OP has posted enough pictures and running commentary to allow an upstart like me to claim I was there at the show, too:  "Chicago ANA 2022?  Why, of course!  Have a seat and I'll tell you all about it..."   

Great stuff, Charmy!