Charmy's BIG HUGE 2022 CHICAGO ANA WORLD'S FAIR OF MONEY SHOW w/tons of Pics! 2 2

[The Penny Lady]

Wow, another summer ANA show has come and gone! While it wasn't quite the blockbuster show last year's was, it was quite busy, very well attended, and flew by! I was busy every day, bought a lot of great newps, sold some of them and much more, spent time with some great friends, attended some club meetings, saw some amazing competitive exhibits, really loved viewing the rare and very cool coins at the ANA museum exhibits, and especially enjoyed the fantastic Central America artifacts display which I understand was being displayed in full for the first time at this show - photos of all of these exhibits you will see later in this report!

I did read some negative comments on another "show report" about certain aspects of this show, but I personally thought overall it was a very successful show and after speaking with several other dealers, they all felt pretty much the same. Everyone thought last year's show, of course, was one of the best shows we've had in many years, but that this year's ANA was still successful, busy, and well attended. Most dealers felt that having Heritage and Stacks auction lot viewing off site was inconvenient, but that was because GreatCollections is now the official ANA auction company (for which they pay a hefty fee) so it was my understanding that the other auction companies were not allowed to have onsite auction lot viewing as they were no longer "paying" for this privilege. Since there are some particularly nice lots in the Stacks auction that I am interested in, for this reason and since I don't live very far from them, I made sure to do my Stacks lot viewing at their offices before the show.

As others have mentioned, the dealer day is an important part of a large show for dealers and will occur with or without the host show's participation. And as a collector, I can understand the frustration with feeling like all the "good stuff" may be gone before the show opens to the public. But as you all know, along with auctions and some other avenues, this is one of the major ways we dealers acquire inventory. It is also especially convenient and generally more secure to have the dealer tables on the bourse floor rather than in separate rooms or at off site hotel rooms. It's also a significant additional revenue for the ANA - when the PNG ran dealer day, they charged $500 per table rather than $250 fee the ANA charged. For me personally, it is also nice not to be rushed to set up and get organized, and much easier to be able to view other dealers' inventory without interfering with their retail business.

One more thing I thought I'd address briefly what I know about the theft at the show that some of you may have heard about on dealer day where a case full of Rolex watches was stolen and the group of thieves (all caught on camera) just picked up the locked case, placed it upside down on a cart, and just walked off with it (the dealers had just taken a brief lunch break). They headed out some doors that were "guarded" by a convention worker but they distracted her and when her back was turned, the others pushed the cart out the door. It is believed they blended in with the other workers who were still on the floor moving/placing show cases at dealers' tables, etc. Believe me, we were all in shock over this brazen and well-orchestrated theft and I'm sure there will be changes made all around as a result of this. Even though this was a terrible event and very frustrating for all concerned, I know it is being handled by all the parties and authorities involved, I really would prefer not to have this show report derailed or focused on this incident.

So with that being said, on with my report! WARNINGL I took a lot of photos throughout the week, especially of the ANA museum, the Central America exhibit, and the competitive exhibits - so go grab that cup of coffee or cocktail, sit back and relax, and hopefully enjoy a fun read and pictorial tour of my week at the Chicago ANA show!

I always look forward to attending the summer ANA show as there is so much to do and see, and so many coins to buy and sell, I very much enjoy attending this show!

I left sunny OC Sunday morning, flew over beautiful Catalina Island, and arrived in Chicago that evening with no delays or any flight issues whatsoever - yay!

I settled in at the hotel and went down to the bar for a quick drink and bite to eat. I happened to sit down right next to Kenny, the show's security guard and very much enjoyed chatting with him. I've known him and seen him around at the all the major shows for years and he's always been very friendly and helpful anytime I've needed anything.

He even highly recommended a very nice cab that I hadn't tried before, which I really enjoyed!

Monday morning was dealer set up day and when I arrived I was really surprised to see how long the line was of all the dealers waiting to get in!

While I was searching for coins, I found a few
of what I call really "cool" coins that I took pics of

The 1825/4/1 Capped Head Left Half Eagle. JD-1, BD-1. Rarity-8 as a Proof (finest known) is truly awesome to see in person. It's currently up for auction at Stacks Bowers. Now, I have no "skin" in this auction piece whatsoever, but when I got to hold it and view it, it truly is beautiful, rare, and amazing just to see in hand. Here is only a very small part of the auction description: "One of the most important offerings in the numismatic market of the 21st century, Stack's Bowers Galleries is pleased to present a landmark early Proof gold rarity whose existence was lost to the collecting community for half a century. Its undeniable and universal Proof qualities, combined with the Proof-67 Cameo grade recently assigned by PCGS, confirm this extraordinary Superb Gem as the finest of just three Proof 1825 half eagles known."

In very pale comparison to the above coins, these are a few pieces I picked up throughout the show for my own very modest but, in my opinion, almost just as cool, exonumia collection:

1912 The Navarre Deposit Bank encased Lincoln cent pocket mirror (from Alan Weinberg)

1902 encased Indian cent "Spinner" by Drovers Journal with its original ribbon - I've never seen one like this before!

A neat simple 1952-S sticker penny from Nelson's TV in Palto Alto (from John Kraljevich)

FYI, sticker cents are relatively scarce as, in addition to the stickers losing their adhesiveness to the coin and eventually falling or wearing off, when the Secret Service discovered businesses were advertising on coinage, which is illegal, they contacted the advertisers and required them to recall/remove any coinage on which they had placed stickers.

So after I had set up, organized my booth, and finished my "shopping" for the day, you know what time it was - time for wine of course! However, since we were "wrapping" up our Women in Numismatics organization, I had brought several gifts for our board members and my bag was too full to bring my usual two bottles of my "beloved" wine. However, I was able to pack one small half bottle of what I call "emergency" wine from my favorite Temecula winery! (I asked a wine friend who was driving to the show if he would bring me a couple bottles that I could buy from him, which he gladly did!)

After the dealer show ended on Monday, I met a group of my foreign coin dealer friends at Gibson's.

Of course, with Gibson's wine selection, we had some great wines!

And some great food!

Not surprisingly, there were several other tables of coin dealers all around us!

I arrived back at the convention center early Tuesday morning so I could get some paperwork done, process my new purchases, and take some more photos around the bourse.

Here are the hardworking folks at NGC

PCGS folks were always busy as well!

GreatCollections, the ANA's official auction company for the next 3 years, was front and center and had a lot of activity throughout the show!

John and Nancy Wilson are amazing longtime and very friendly numismatic ambassadors, eager to greet everyone attending the show!

The public was let into the show at 1pm, and boy was there a HUGE crowd gathered at the door when ANA Executive Director Kim Kiick welcomed everyone to the show!

Tuesday afternoon was really busy and I was happy to have lots of folks stopping by my table.

After the show ended, a group of us went over to a local pub, Five Roses Pub, which is in the park just behind the hotels across from the convention center.

After dinner, a couple of us headed over to the Rivers Casino which is right next to the airport and only a few miles away. By the end of the evening, I was happy to end up $50 ahead!

Wednesday morning was sadly my last Women In Numismatics (WIN) meeting. I've been president of WIN for the last 6 years, but after a year of thoughtful discussions and meetings, the board came to the conclusion that WIN had met its goals and felt it was no longer really necessary to have a woman-oriented numismatic organization.

This is the basic content of my speech which I took from my final President's Letter that was just published in our last issue of "Winning Ways" which our editor, Dave Heinrich, artfully, carefully, and thoughtfully put together for us.

I can tell you it was very hard to get through my talk without tearing up and I had to pause a few times to gather myself as I will truly miss being a part of Women in Numismatics.

_"Women in Numismatics was formed in 1991 as a national non-profit organization that provided a networking and educational forum for female numismatists. Members have included new and established collectors, dealers, and those associated with numismatic-related organizations. WIN has encouraged fellowship among its members and promoted education through guest speakers and informative presentations. WIN has also provided educational opportunities to its members by awarding an annual scholarship to the ANA’s Summer Seminar in Colorado Springs.

Now, after more than 30 years of service to the numismatic community, WIN has accomplished its mission and achieved the goals it set for itself. With some sadness but also pride in what the dedicated members and officers of WIN have achieved over the years, the WIN Board of Directors has decided to dissolve Women in Numismatics as of December 31, 2022.

Over the years, WIN has done its best to educate, mentor and guide its members through the wonderful world of numismatics and I hope we’ve left it a little better off. It has truly been my honor to serve Women in Numismatics and its members over these past six years as its president. I am thankful to all those who have been a part of and supported WIN. I am also grateful for all the new friends I have gained through being a part of Women in Numismatics.

And even though WIN may no longer be a formal organization, I’m sure I speak for the rest of our board members, that we will still be around if any of you need any assistance or guidance with any of your numismatic endeavors. In particular, please know that I will be honored to continue to help with your numismatic needs. Just email me at charmy@thepennylady.com or call me at (949) 632-0414.

I’d also like to personally thank each of our WIN board members for all they’ve done over the years to help our organization achieve its goals and to help me through my tenure as WIN’s president. I could not have performed my duties without the assistance and dedication of each member of our board: Cindy Wibker (secretary and membership); Louise Boling (vice president); Kathy Freeland (publicity and member at large); Dreama Hurst (treasurer); Carrie Best (parliamentarian); Lisa Loos (publicity); David Heinrich (editor); and James Motley (webmaster). You have not only been my cohorts in WIN, but you have become my friends and I am so profoundly grateful for each of you."_

During the meeting, we presented Mitch Ernst (President of Central States), Kim Kiick (Executive Director of the ANA), and Bob Hurst (President of FUN) each with a check for just over $3,000 to use for educational purposes. These funds were originally given to WIN by the Newman Foundation for us to use for educational purposes, so we thought we'd pass it on to these organizations who not only supported WIN and gave us free space and booths during their shows for our meetings and presentations, but these organizations also have excellent educational programs and WIN was happy to help support their educational platforms as well.

We also awarded our volunteer webmaster, Jim Motley, with a check for $250 and a special medal depicting the Patron Saint Isidore Of Seville Medal which is regarded as the "patron saint of technology."

We also gave literary awards to Kathy Skelton Larry Sekulich for outstanding articles they authored for Winning Ways. And WIN will also make a $100 donation to the Ocean County Coin Club in NJ in memory of Kari Brower who passed away recently and who was a prolific author of numerous articles for our WIN publication.

At the end of the meeting, I presented each of our board members with a special Yeti WIN mug I had made to thank them for all their hard work and dedication to WIN. As I mentioned above, I could not have done my part without the support of each and every one of these amazing and dedicated people!

Here are a few pics around the bourse floor after the show opened on Wednesday morning

My awesome booth neighbors (who coincidentally were my neighbors a year ago at the last show!):

Todd/PursuitOfLiberty stopped by my table for a visit

Wednesday was steadily busy, and I was able to buy a few more pieces for my inventory. I also sold several coins from my new purchases, in addition to quite a few pennies from my uncertified boxes.

Here are the new coins I acquired throughout the show

I posted in my last show report from Central States about the 1870 J-788 aluminum pattern cent I saw at the show, where there are only two known - one in PF66+ and one in PF65.

This is a spectacular pattern cent. It has deep mirrors and a beautiful cameo contrast. As only two are known, there are very few chances of acquiring one. The second example is the PR66+CAM from the Simpson collection, which came out of a nearly complete denomination set broken up around 2017-18. This (MS65) example comes from the Loye Lauder collection (Estee's sister) which was sold in 1983. The coin surfaced in the Dickson collection in 2021, just after the Simpson collection sale where the PR66+Cam came on the market."

I ended up purchasing the PF65 for my personal collection right after the CSNS show.

Well, the person who owned both coins also decided to part with the beautiful PF66+ piece as well and and I was honored that he gave it to me to sell for him. This is an absolutely stunning and rare piece and anyone who ends up with it will be very pleased to add it to their collection!

Soon it was time to take a breather and open one of the bottles of wine that my friend brought for me - Chappellet Cab. It was one I hadn't had before and it was delicious! (He has very good taste!)

After the show on Wednesday, we headed to Carlucci's for dinner. What a wonderful Italian restaurant, one of my favorites!

The wine and food was amazing!

Thursday morning when I got to the show I decided to take some time to view the competitive exhibits before the public was let in. They had some very diverse, fun and interesting exhibits and you could tell that all the creators put a lot of time and effort into creating them. My personal favorite weas the WWII exhibit entitled "Wartime Change."

After the show opened to the public, several more forum members stopped by to say hi. It was great seeing these folks, some of whom I hadn't seen in quite a while!

Mark/ColoradoCoinGuy

Andy and Chris/Fishteeth

Doug Noblet who brought a bottle of wine from a mutual friend/customer of mine!

Roy Ash brought me this very cool antique hat pin made with Indian cents from the turn of the century

And Ben and Abe also stopped by!

After a flurry of business, soon things died down and I was able to have some of the other bottle my friend brought and which he knew was my very favorite wine - Rombauer Zinfandel!

Then 8 of us headed back to Gibson's for another evening of favorite food, fantastic wine, and fabulous friends!

Since Gibson's is a bit of a walk away from the Hyatt, I ran into this gentleman who was kind enough to walk me back to my hotel

Friday morning, I took time to explore the shipwreck exhibit and the ANA museum coins. Both displays were fascinating and amazing!

Central America exhibt

The ANA Museum exhibit

Friday ended up being one of my business days at the show. I had a lot of customers who ended up buying quite a few pieces from my inventory.

Later in the afternoon, Jerry Bobbe stopped by for a brief chat

I also ran into my good friend Ron Guth!

Then it was time to head over to the ANA banquet.

Abe Lincoln gave the most impressive and dramatic recitation of the Gettysburg Address that I've ever heard!

Michael Shutterly won Best of Show and 1st Runner Up for his two exhibits

Saturday was on the slow side as usual, since many dealers have to pack up and catch their flights around the country. It was raining and thundering throughout the day and we were all hoping it wouldn't affect our flights too much. Soon it was my time to pack up and head to the airport. I enjoyed a nice glass of wine before boarding my flight.

But soon, I found out my flight was delayed but only for an hour. My friend Greg Lyon was at the airport and I was able to join him at the Admiral's Club while I waited for my flight. There were several other coin dealers waiting for their flights as well and I enjoyed chatting with them.

Soon I was on the plane heading home!

Soon I was home with my hubby and my sweet Penny!

I had a great time and a great show! Next up - this week is the Las Vegas Palace Station show, then the Buena Park show in a couple weeks, and Long Beach the end of September!

[GoldFinger1969]

Very nice job. Thanks for taking the time to post this.  

I think I saw you speak on a panel discussion or something at FUN 2020 on Flying Cents or something, I can't remember.  

[zadok]

...another class act from a classy lady...boun appetito....

[AdamWL]

Great report. I'm envious of not only the show, but the fine dining as well

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:58 PM, AdamWL said:

Great report. I'm envious of not only the show, but the fine dining as well

Come to FUN 2023 and a bunch of us should be there.  Although as I recall I went to this nearby Thai restaurant 3 nights in a row !! 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Glad you had a great show - great people, coins and food!

[zadok]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:26 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

Glad you had a great show - great people, coins and food!

...all of the above...i would like to add to ur comment, this thread provided by Charmy provides a great insight into the various conventions n shows she attends, it allows many collectors the opportunity to see from their home, assisted living homes, hospitals whatever a near real-time snap shot or capsule of the hobby they love...many r not fortunate enuf to travel n attend, it lets them share the energy n excitement of the hobby they otherwise would miss, vkurt has mentioned this in past threads n comments n i take his views as being complimentary n that it adds to the ANA experience in particular...everyone here should take into consideration that she takes valuable time n energy away from her booth n schedule to give u this gift...she does not promote her business she shares her joys n the hunger inducing meals n fine wines she partakes of, its almost like u can taste her dinners, i applaude her generosity, hopefully others here will take advantage of her efforts....

[The Penny Lady]

Thank you everyone, but especially @zadok! That was soooo very kind of you and I very much appreciate your post. Yes it is a lot of work and takes a LOT of time to put these show reports together, but know that YOU all are why I do it, especially those who can no longer participate in attending these shows. It is so nice and heartwarming when forum members and just readers of my reports stop by my table to thank me or to tell me about their grandfather who used to attend the shows but can no longer physically make it but feel like they've been there by reading my reports - that means everything to me! So thank you again!

[Just Bob]

Lots of great pics, but what really caught my eye was the picture of the Ingle Systems token dispensers. Very cool!

[RonnieR131]

 Thanks a lot! I really enjoyed everything you posted and liked last years and before. Please do again next time. I'm starving, and I seem to be craving wine for some reason.

[Hoghead515]

Thank you for sharing your wonderful experience. I really enjoyed viewing all the pictures. Ive never had the oppurtunity to attend any shows and that was very exciting. It gave me a great idea of what to expect when I finally get to go. Thank you and congratulations on your awsome additions you got to bring home with you. Those were some very nice coins. Like Zadok said, I could almost put myself there from your well documented experience and great pictures. Thank you for sharing. I really enjoyed your post. 

[AdamWL]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:06 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Come to FUN 2023 and a bunch of us should be there.  Although as I recall I went to this nearby Thai restaurant 3 nights in a row !! 

That would be very cool. I'll let you know if I can make it, though it's doubtful. I'd love to attend one of these bigger national shows. I love Thai food too!

[GoldFinger1969]

Charmy, have you noticed more people....more YOUNG people.....more BEGINNERS.....at your table since Covid-19 ?

We've all heard the anectdotal stories about people at home picking up new hobbies with their keyboard.  Wondering if it is translating into traffic and a commitment past the stay-at-home surge of 2020/21.

Edited August 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[CoinJockey73]

No pics of, or with, our every own, and famous in his own right, @VKurtB. How odd. 

[The 12th Denticle]

Thank you for taking the time to share information about the show. I thoroughly enjoyed reading and viewing your all-inclusive report. Please continue reporting as I and many others in this forum look forward to learning about the happenings on the next shows and conventions.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/24/2022 at 2:53 PM, The Penny Lady said:

Yes it is a lot of work and takes a LOT of time to put these show reports together, but know that YOU all are why I do it, especially those who can no longer participate in attending these shows. It is so nice and heartwarming when forum members and just readers of my reports stop by my table to thank me or to tell me about their grandfather who used to attend the shows but can no longer physically make it but feel like they've been there by reading my reports - that means everything to me! So thank you again!

Yes, and it also helps spread the joy of these shows to newcomers and beginners who might think it's not for them and not worth the cost.  They may think it's just for the Big Boys.  This spreads the word.  

Thanks, Charmy. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:56 AM, CoinJockey73 said:

No pics of, or with, our every own, and famous in his own right, @VKurtB. How odd. 

Not at all. I never saw Charmy even once. I only got to maybe 10-15% of the bourse floor. I only ate dinner once, at Fogo da Chão on Wednesday night. My entire show was spent at Dealer Registration, the exhibits, and meeting rooms. 
 

Charmy has her “ducks in a row”. She brings her previous photo ID and registers early enough to get her ribbon through the mail. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by VKurtB

[CoinJockey73]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:10 PM, VKurtB said:

Not at all. I never saw Charmy even once. I only got to maybe 10-15% of the bourse floor. I only ate dinner once, at Fogo da Chão on Wednesday night. My entire show was spent at Dealer Registration, the exhibits, and meeting rooms. 
 

Charmy has her “ducks in a row”. She brings her previous photo ID and registers early enough to get her ribbon through the mail. 

Thank you for the explanation. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/26/2022 at 7:38 PM, CoinJockey73 said:

Thank you for the explanation. 

Charmy is a real pro at this. You’d be amazed how disorganized so many show dealers are. It’s like they’re living life with their hair on fire. Some came to my desk THREE TIMES for photo ID’s. Each new one ran them $30. Very few seem to care. The margins must be obscene. 

[GoldFinger1969]

Some comments and questions on Charmy's intro:

On 8/23/2022 at 12:39 AM, The Penny Lady said:

Most dealers felt that having Heritage and Stacks auction lot viewing off site was inconvenient, but that was because GreatCollections is now the official ANA auction company (for which they pay a hefty fee) so it was my understanding that the other auction companies were not allowed to have onsite auction lot viewing as they were no longer "paying" for this privilege.

So does this mean that HA and Stacks can't be anywhere in the convention center -- or just on the bourse/floor show ?  I remember at FUN 2020 (last show I attended) that I believe HA may have been the official sponsor and they held their 1927-D Saint and other auctions in a nice little room not far from the convention entrance doors.

On 8/23/2022 at 12:39 AM, The Penny Lady said:

As others have mentioned, the dealer day is an important part of a large show for dealers and will occur with or without the host show's participation. And as a collector, I can understand the frustration with feeling like all the "good stuff" may be gone before the show opens to the public. But as you all know, along with auctions and some other avenues, this is one of the major ways we dealers acquire inventory. It is also especially convenient and generally more secure to have the dealer tables on the bourse floor rather than in separate rooms or at off site hotel rooms. It's also a significant additional revenue for the ANA - when the PNG ran dealer day, they charged $500 per table rather than $250 fee the ANA charged. For me personally, it is also nice not to be rushed to set up and get organized, and much easier to be able to view other dealers' inventory without interfering with their retail business.

So in addition to having Dealer Time before the show opens on the 1st Day to the public....there are Dealer Days before the official start of the show -- is that correct ?

I'm curious....I've heard that 80% of many dealers business is these dealer-to-dealer transactions...it's where they get inventory....where they make money.....but....

How are they making money if they sell their stuff to other dealers (who presumably have to get it below the retail price to sell it themselves)....or....charge full retail price which is no bargain to the other dealer buyer ?  I guess this is why I never owned my own business.

On 8/23/2022 at 12:39 AM, The Penny Lady said:

One more thing I thought I'd address briefly what I know about the theft at the show that some of you may have heard about on dealer day where a case full of Rolex watches was stolen and the group of thieves (all caught on camera) just picked up the locked case, placed it upside down on a cart, and just walked off with it (the dealers had just taken a brief lunch break). They headed out some doors that were "guarded" by a convention worker but they distracted her and when her back was turned, the others pushed the cart out the door. It is believed they blended in with the other workers who were still on the floor moving/placing show cases at dealers' tables, etc. Believe me, we were all in shock over this brazen and well-orchestrated theft and I'm sure there will be changes made all around as a result of this. Even though this was a terrible event and very frustrating for all concerned, I know it is being handled by all the parties and authorities involved, I really would prefer not to have this show report derailed or focused on this incident.

This is amateur hour.  The place running the show CLEARLY doesn't have security people, they just have some young people or folks looking for some PT work who get a 2-week training in Security Procedures and get badges.  I can't believe that ANYBODY could be allowed to "blend in" when a show is being set up and people are coming-and-going. 

You need ALL entrances and exits locked....just one place for folks to come in-and-out.

No professional security guard gets "distracted" -- you're on the lookout for that.

Nobody "blends in" -- you have specially made highly-visible fluouresent orange or yellow windbreakers with the specific show's name blazened front and back.

Yes, I know these procedures -- I was an overnight guard for our club one year and worked alongside professionals who taught me alot in the few days of the show.

Edited August 27, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[zadok]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Some comments and questions on Charmy's intro:

So does this mean that HA and Stacks can't be anywhere in the convention center -- or just on the bourse/floor show ?  I remember at FUN 2020 (last show I attended) that I believe HA may have been the official sponsor and they held their 1927-D Saint and other auctions in a nice little room not far from the convention entrance doors.

So in addition to having Dealer Time before the show opens on the 1st Day to the public....there are Dealer Days before the official start of the show -- is that correct ?

I'm curious....I've heard that 80% of many dealers business is these dealer-to-dealer transactions...it's where they get inventory....where they make money.....but....

How are they making money if they sell their stuff to other dealers (who presumably have to get it below the retail price to sell it themselves)....or....charge full retail price which is no bargain to the other dealer buyer ?  I guess this is why I never owned my own business.

This is amateur hour.  The place running the show CLEARLY doesn't have security people, they just have some young people or folks looking for some PT work who get a 2-week training in Security Procedures and get badges.  I can't believe that ANYBODY could be allowed to "blend in" when a show is being set up and people are coming-and-going. 

You need ALL entrances and exits locked....just one place for folks to come in-and-out.

No professional security guard gets "distracted" -- you're on the lookout for that.

Nobody "blends in" -- you have specially made highly-visible fluouresent orange or yellow windbreakers with the specific show's name blazened front and back.

Yes, I know these procedures -- I was an overnight guard for our club one year and worked alongside professionals who taught me alot in the few days of the show.

...re the lot viewing etc...HA n SB had their lot viewing offsite because of contract arrangements with  GC...both HA n SB were well represented on the bourse with massive booths etc, both had off bourse rooms for various functions, u r referring to the auctions that were conducted during the ANA, these r now held after the ANA at their home bases n online....

[zadok]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Some comments and questions on Charmy's intro:

So does this mean that HA and Stacks can't be anywhere in the convention center -- or just on the bourse/floor show ?  I remember at FUN 2020 (last show I attended) that I believe HA may have been the official sponsor and they held their 1927-D Saint and other auctions in a nice little room not far from the convention entrance doors.

So in addition to having Dealer Time before the show opens on the 1st Day to the public....there are Dealer Days before the official start of the show -- is that correct ?

I'm curious....I've heard that 80% of many dealers business is these dealer-to-dealer transactions...it's where they get inventory....where they make money.....but....

How are they making money if they sell their stuff to other dealers (who presumably have to get it below the retail price to sell it themselves)....or....charge full retail price which is no bargain to the other dealer buyer ?  I guess this is why I never owned my own business.

This is amateur hour.  The place running the show CLEARLY doesn't have security people, they just have some young people or folks looking for some PT work who get a 2-week training in Security Procedures and get badges.  I can't believe that ANYBODY could be allowed to "blend in" when a show is being set up and people are coming-and-going. 

You need ALL entrances and exits locked....just one place for folks to come in-and-out.

No professional security guard gets "distracted" -- you're on the lookout for that.

Nobody "blends in" -- you have specially made highly-visible fluouresent orange or yellow windbreakers with the specific show's name blazened front and back.

Yes, I know these procedures -- I was an overnight guard for our club one year and worked alongside professionals who taught me alot in the few days of the show.

...re the security arrangements...its much more complicated at a major convention site n comprised of many different vendors n subcontractors, significantly different than a local astronomy show where security is very basic n simple to arrange n secure...to implement all the various lock down n employee n contractor personnel registration n background checks would be cost prohibitive n the convention costs for dealers n attendees would exceed all revenues n void the convention...not to mention the unimaginable bottlenecks n long lines for everyone entering n leaving the complex, the convention would come to full-stop if it ever opened at all.... 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:38 PM, zadok said:

...re the security arrangements...its much more complicated at a major convention site n comprised of many different vendors n subcontractors, significantly different than a local astronomy show where security is very basic n simple to arrange n secure...to implement all the various lock down n employee n contractor personnel registration n background checks would be cost prohibitive n the convention costs for dealers n attendees would exceed all revenues n void the convention...not to mention the unimaginable bottlenecks n long lines for everyone entering n leaving the complex, the convention would come to full-stop if it ever opened at all.... 

Our astronomy show has 100-120 vendors coming from across the country with hundreds of people going in-and-out....trucks, cars, vans.....helpers and dealers....people coming from Europe, California, and the Tri-State area.

Procedures are procedures.  Basic stuff applies to any show.  From what Charmy wrote, some of the "procedures" look like they were grabbed off the internet.

[zadok]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Our astronomy show has 100-120 vendors coming from across the country with hundreds of people going in-and-out....trucks, cars, vans.....helpers and dealers....people coming from Europe, California, and the Tri-State area.

Procedures are procedures.  Basic stuff applies to any show.  From what Charmy wrote, some of the "procedures" look like they were grabbed off the internet.

...that is a very small show by comparison, our local flea market has more vendors, some of the larger coin shows have 10 times that number n encompass acres of space...but as u say, its all in the pudding if u want better security some one has to pay for it...organization, vendor, dealers or attendees....

[VKurtB]

On 8/26/2022 at 9:57 PM, zadok said:

...that is a very small show by comparison, our local flea market has more vendors, some of the larger coin shows have 10 times that number n encompass acres of space...but as u say, its all in the pudding if u want better security some one has to pay for it...organization, vendor, dealers or attendees....

All of the above, most likely. These people ARE security professionals. The same security staff goes with the ANA for EVERY show, whether it’s Colorado Springs, Atlanta, Chicago, Phoenix, Denver, Philly, Anaheim, wherever. This was a previously unseen technique. Security is provided by PPI Security, a Houston firm, if memory serves. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

Neither SB or HA had lot viewing on site. Both were at the Lowe’s hotel several blocks south. The contract with the official auction company, Great Collections in this case, grants them EXCLUSIVE on site lot viewing rights. Why SB and HA didn’t opt for a closer hotel, I can’t speculate. There were numerous to choose from. What I do know is Great Collections outbid both of the two biggies. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 8/26/2022 at 9:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

This is amateur hour.  The place running the show CLEARLY doesn't have security people, they just have some young people or folks looking for some PT work who get a 2-week training in Security Procedures and get badges.  I can't believe that ANYBODY could be allowed to "blend in" when a show is being set up and people are coming-and-going. 

This is 100% false. PPI is a thoroughly professional security firm. They got beat this time. Simple as that. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:57 PM, zadok said:

that is a very small show by comparison, our local flea market has more vendors, some of the larger coin shows have 10 times that number n encompass acres of space...but as u say, its all in the pudding if u want better security some one has to pay for it...organization, vendor, dealers or attendees....

Then you adjust personnel numbers....FUN is 600 vendors or so.....you might need more personnel for a larger forum (I would say OCCC was 3x the size of the Field House we use)...but the principles are the same.

Point is, this theft wasn't even well-planned....it wasn't Ocean's 11 or even Ocean's 8 (good movie with a female cast ! )....they need to hire a PROFESSIONAL security company, the ones that safeguard billionaires and art shows.

Edited August 27, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/26/2022 at 11:22 PM, VKurtB said:

This is 100% false. PPI is a thoroughly professional security firm. They got beat this time. Simple as that. 

Beat by a distracted guard ?  By people blending in ?  Sorry, that is amateur hour.  This is EXACTLY what you pay a security firm to prevent.

Nobody is coming through the skylight on a rope like Tom Cruise in MISSION IMPOSSIBLE.  My friend works security for one of the Top 50 wealthiest people in the U.S.....their procedures are all geared to stop this stuff and consider it 1st Level entries.  They are prepared for 2 levels higher, much more sophisticated, like professional military and/or security folks.

[zadok]

On 8/27/2022 at 12:09 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Then you adjust personnel numbers....FUN is 600 vendors or so.....you might need more personnel for a larger forum (I would say OCCC was 3x the size of the Field House we use)...but the principles are the same.

Point is, this theft wasn't even well-planned....it wasn't Ocean's 11 or even Ocean's 8 (good movie with a female cast ! )....they need to hire a PROFESSIONAL security company, the ones that safeguard billionaires and art shows.

...i personally think u r trying to compare small town venues with minimal incentives for professional thieves with venues having 10s or 100s of millions of dollars of goods that attract all levels of thieves...i personally am not aware of any venue in the US that could or would accommodate the security features u mention that would be large enuf to house the ANA....