If I buy in between PCGS and NGC price is it a good deal retail?? 0

[EagleRJO]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:34 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If someone wants to know the prices for an MS-65 or MS-63 1923-D Saint-Gaudens for 1986 or 2006....I don't think the HA data is going to change today vs. when RWB computed it. 

Why would anyone want to know what a Saint went for in 1986 or 2006/

[VKurtB]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:46 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

What is CNG ??

If what you are saying is true, considering that is just one nondescript county (not exceptionally wealthy our adjacent to a major metropolitan area, either).....you wonder if that could be true for other counties, too.

Or maybe PA just nurtured coin collectors better than other locales decades ago so more people collected in the state and therefore there are more of these "unknown hoards."  When The Great Transfer takes place -- the trillions of financial and tangible assets that will be passed from the pre-WW II generation to the post-WW II generation -- you'll get these collections coming out.  IF they exist. 

Any idea what kind of coins might be in those collections ?  We talking gold/silver or U.S. Small Denominations or even foreign stuff ?

All of it - U.S., world, renaissance, and ancient. CNG, Classical Numismatic Group, has two offices, Lancaster, PA, and the Bloomsbury neighborhood of London, England. Lancaster sits about 60 miles from Baltimore and Philadelphia. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:51 PM, EagleRJO said:

Why would anyone want to know what a Saint went for in 1986 or 2006/

Just knowing what they commanded at a certain point in time...maybe relative to the price of gold....before, during, or after a price spike or bubble.  I find it interesting to know and I do use it as a guide for current prospective purchases.

I find it fascinating to track the prices of a generic common Saint over time and see the premium soar and collapse at various times.  Let's me know if I am paying a "rich" or "cheap" price when I am considering pulling the trigger.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:07 AM, VKurtB said:

All of it - U.S., world, renaissance, and ancient. CNG, Classical Numismatic Group, has two offices, Lancaster, PA, and the Bloomsbury neighborhood of London, England. Lancaster sits about 60 miles from Baltimore and Philadelphia. 

Hopefully we're both around when these collections become public.  I've always wondered if a super-scarce coin like a 1927-D Saint might be in someone's collection raw and thus uncounted in the population census.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:56 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I do use it as a guide for current prospective purchases.

I am just curious which prospective purchase you are looking to make where that historical data becomes relevant?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:42 PM, EagleRJO said:

I am just curious which prospective purchase you are looking to make where that historical data becomes relevant?

I don't know about relevant but it's another tool I check.  Premiums at various times tell me if I am chasing hot money or buying closer to a bottom.

For Saints...when the premiums to spot gold get to be about 100-300%, it's time to lighten up and sell.  When they get to 500%, it's time to sell it all. 

Even if there's not much useful information for my buying.....I still like seeing what a given coin commanded over time knowing the underlying gold prices.  You can see the time periods when there were buying frenzies and if you're anywhere close to that today, exercise caution.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:59 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't know about relevant but it's another tool I check.  Premiums at various times tell me if I am chasing hot money or buying closer to a bottom.

I am still curious which coins you are looking to purchase?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:22 PM, EagleRJO said:

I am still curious which coins you are looking to purchase?

Nothing right now, looking down the line at a 1908 WF NM MS-66.  Probably my next purchase in the Saint series.

Further down the line.....awaiting a drop in MCMVII HRs if estate sales increase the supply.  We'll see.....

Edited December 15, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[EagleRJO]

On 12/15/2022 at 3:50 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

looking down the line at a 1908 WF NM MS-66

I saw this one at GC, with a minimum reserve of $3,750 ... https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1203462/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-Nevada-Gold-PCGS-MS-66-OGH

[VKurtB]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:58 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Hopefully we're both around when these collections become public.  I've always wondered if a super-scarce coin like a 1927-D Saint might be in someone's collection raw and thus uncounted in the population census.

I put absolutely zero faith in anyone’s population census. What IS the plural of census? I’ve seen far more stuff than I can ever unsee. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:44 PM, EagleRJO said:

I saw this one at GC, with a minimum reserve of $3,750 ... https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1203462/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-Wells-Fargo-Nevada-Gold-PCGS-MS-66-OGH

Yes...saw it......not a BAD coin but the price is a bit high.  Notice no bids.  At $3,200 it gets sold.

$4,000+ when you include fees is too high.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:27 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes...saw it......not a BAD coin but the price is a bit high.  Notice no bids.  At $3,200 it gets sold.

$4,000+ when you include fees is too high.

The reserve did seem high, which seems to be happening a lot with gold coins.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 6:22 PM, EagleRJO said:

The reserve did seem high, which seems to be happening a lot with gold coins.

It's increasing...gold and OTHER coins......the 2020 and 2021 staying-at-home Covid buyers are now working back at the office and/or don't have the $$$ they did 2+ years ago.   

Ebay is the worst, GC is seeing more (but I'd estimate for the stuff I follow maybe 20% tops have too high a reserve)...HA and SB and other top-end houses see the fewest.

[EagleRJO]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:59 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

... but I'd estimate for the stuff I follow maybe 20% tops have too high a reserve

That is about what I have been encountering for the CC Morgans I have been bidding on at GC.  Forget about eBay, as its a lot higher.

[VKurtB]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:59 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't know about relevant but it's another tool I check.  Premiums at various times tell me if I am chasing hot money or buying closer to a bottom.

For Saints...when the premiums to spot gold get to be about 100-300%, it's time to lighten up and sell.  When they get to 500%, it's time to sell it all. 

Even if there's not much useful information for my buying.....I still like seeing what a given coin commanded over time knowing the underlying gold prices.  You can see the time periods when there were buying frenzies and if you're anywhere close to that today, exercise caution.

Don’t take up high end cents. Premiums above metal value can soar to tens of thousands of percent pretty easily. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 5:19 PM, VKurtB said:

I put absolutely zero faith in anyone’s population census. 

It's just an estimate based on available knowledge to-date. 

Better than nothing. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 12/15/2022 at 8:50 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's just an estimate based on available knowledge to-date. 

Better than nothing. 

I know a lot of what I don’t know. For example, I don’t know how cracking out and resubmitting, which overstates populations, balances out against coins never submitted, which understates them. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/15/2022 at 10:09 PM, VKurtB said:

I know a lot of what I don’t know. For example, I don’t know how cracking out and resubmitting, which overstates populations, balances out against coins never submitted, which understates them. 

Like I said:  better than nothing, but FAR from perfect. 

With some coins, you can expect far more raw unsubmitted coins than others.