Is the grade on my St. Gaudens Double Eagle correct? 0

[silvergold1700]

I recently ordered a MS-65 from an online bullion dealer and received the following.  I'm new to collecting, so I was expecting much higher quality at MS-65.  The scuff on the face of the bust of Lady Liberty is off-putting to my eyes.  Am I wrong to expect more from the grade?

[J P M]

The larger the coin the more likely it will have some worn areas that are easy to see. It looks like a NGC holder and the grade is consistent with many that I have seen. It is always difficult to buy coins from pictures on-line.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Not all 65's are created equal, meaning that there are unattractive coins across all grades and that the buyer must be selective in what they are buying, or buy what they like. I'm not a fan of these so I won't comment on the grade or eye appeal of the coin but my question to you is was there an image provided by the seller prior to you purchasing the coin and do they have a return policy. I would send this coin back if you don't like the look of it.

[JT2]

Fenntucky is absoultly right.  just because a coin has a grade of MS 65 doesnt mean that it is flashy and gem looking.  This is why you always need to hold a coin before you buy it.  Not all 65's are equal.  you need to take into account eye appeal and luster as well as the details of the coin. just becasue a coin says 65 on the holder this is only becasue the group of graders that looked it over thought that the "details" of the coins devices rated that level of grade and not the over all coin.  trust me i have seen som real dogs out there at higher grades.

[zadok]

On 6/23/2022 at 6:40 AM, JT2 said:

Fenntucky is absoultly right.  just because a coin has a grade of MS 65 doesnt mean that it is flashy and gem looking.  This is why you always need to hold a coin before you buy it.  Not all 65's are equal.  you need to take into account eye appeal and luster as well as the details of the coin. just becasue a coin says 65 on the holder this is only becasue the group of graders that looked it over thought that the "details" of the coins devices rated that level of grade and not the over all coin.  trust me i have seen som real dogs out there at higher grades.

...actually thats what the graders r suppose to do.....grade the coin on its technical merits as to degradation since striking...all of the other aspects mentioned r not a part of grading....

[RWB]

In truth -- every coin labeled "MS-65" should meet the same criteria for surface marks. That should be independent of subjective opinion as to luster, detail and other things. However, the coin business uses the euphemism "market grading" which is closer to a jumbled opinion of what someone thinks the coin looks like with objective and subjective factors screwed together in a plastic slab.

This creates a wide band of appearance and marks combinations that other mention, above.

Your photos suggest to me that the coin is actually AU, but single photos are not very reliable for evaluating Unc coins.

PS: Send it back if you're not happy with the coin. It's your money and you should receive full value for it!

Edited June 23, 2022 by RWB

[Coinbuf]

I would send that back for a refund, it may meet (just meet) the bar for an MS65 but I find that coin to be very unattractive for the grade.   If you bought from a large online bullion dealer many of those outfits use stock photos with the disclaimer that the coin you receive may look different than the photo.

[silvergold1700]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I’m glad to hear that I wasn’t expecting too much.  I will try to send it back.  

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Definitely return the coin!!

Unless you want a $20 Saint-Gaudens that will remind you — every time you view it — of the Bring Out the Gimp scene from the movie Pulp Fiction.

100% refund, nothing less, no strings attached, "or you'll go viral."

[silvergold1700]

On 6/23/2022 at 4:33 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Definitely return the coin!!

Unless you want a $20 Saint-Gaudens that will remind you — every time you view it — of the Bring Out the Gimp scene from the movie Pulp Fiction.

100% refund, nothing less, no strings attached, "or you'll go viral."

LMAO now I have to return it because that’s going to be stuck in my head. Thanks a lot! Lol.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

If you're at all unsure of a coin purchase due to appearance, it is far better to return it than to get stuck with it, regretting the purchase… especially when a lot of money is at stake.

You should be pleased as soon as you receive the coin… that's the "tell."

I almost kept a high grade $3 Indian Princess Head that had a horrible, huge, copper spot in one of its balled-plume feather-peaks.

Completely detracted the rest of the coin's high grade appearance.  It was the first thing you'd notice about the coin.

Would have been miserable had I kept it.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:42 PM, silvergold1700 said:

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I’m glad to hear that I wasn’t expecting too much.  I will try to send it back.  

Have you checked out the 1923-D ?  Much better surface appeal and luster than a comparable 1924, IMO.  And I too got a 1924 Saint as my 1st.

Also....how it looks TO YOU is most important -- lighting and camera angle can change a good-looking coin to mediocre or vice-versa for us viewing the pics.

Edited June 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/23/2022 at 3:15 AM, silvergold1700 said:

I recently ordered a MS-65 from an online bullion dealer 

Always best to buy a coin that is in front of you when possible.  Try attending a coin show or visit your LCS or even an auction that has Hi-Def pics like at HA and GC.

You may pay a bit more (maybe not)....but you'll LOVE the coin. 

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:04 AM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

If you're at all unsure of a coin purchase due to appearance, it is far better to return it than to get stuck with it, regretting the purchase… especially when a lot of money is at stake.

You should be pleased as soon as you receive the coin… that's the "tell."

I almost kept a high grade $3 Indian Princess Head that had a horrible, huge, copper spot in one of its balled-plume feather-peaks.

Completely detracted the rest of the coin's high grade appearance.  It was the first thing you'd notice about the coin.

Would have been miserable had I kept it.

What is your opinion of this video on removing copper spots with an eraser?  I’m completely ignorant on the subject.  

 

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 10:11 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Have you checked out the 1923-D ?  Much better surface appeal and luster than a comparable 1924, IMO.  And I too got a 1924 Saint as my 1st.

Also....how it looks TO YOU is most important -- lighting and camera angle can change a good-looking coin to mediocre or vice-versa for us viwing the pics.

I’ll look into the 1923D.  Thanks!

[Coinbuf]

On 6/24/2022 at 1:23 PM, silvergold1700 said:

What is your opinion of this video on removing copper spots with an eraser?  I’m completely ignorant on the subject.  

 

Good way to ruin any numismatic value of a gold coin.

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:10 PM, Coinbuf said:

Good way to ruin any numismatic value of a gold coin.

Why would an eraser be bad but using something like acetone be okay (I read this in another thread)?

[J P M]

On 6/24/2022 at 6:27 PM, silvergold1700 said:

Why would an eraser be bad but using something like acetone be okay (I read this in another thread)?

I would not want to touch the coin with anything..... A eraser is like fine emery cloth it will remove the spots ... LoL....and a lot more . The coin is in a holder it would not be wise to do anything but enjoy looking at it.

Edited June 25, 2022 by J P Mashoke

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 5:04 PM, J P Mashoke said:

I would not want to touch the coin with anything..... A eraser is like fine emery cloth it will remove the spots ... LoL....and a lot more . The coin is in a holder it would not be wise to do anything but enjoy looking at it.

I was thinking about ungraded coins that maybe don’t have the same numismatic value.   

Edited June 25, 2022 by silvergold1700

[Coinbuf]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:27 PM, silvergold1700 said:

Why would an eraser be bad but using something like acetone be okay (I read this in another thread)?

A soft cloth can impart hairlines on coins, just think what a hard rubber eraser repeatedly rubbed over the surface of a coin will do.   Acetone is not rubbing or creating friction with the surface of a coin, all it is doing is dissolving any organic matter it come into contact with.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:24 PM, silvergold1700 said:

I’ll look into the 1923D.  Thanks!

Do you have a budget ?  I've seen the MS-65's under $3K but the MS-66's (got one at FUN 2020) are now closer to $4K.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:23 PM, silvergold1700 said:

I’m completely ignorant on the subject.  

If you are ever ignorant on anything to do with coins (or anything else involving an outlay of $$$).....don't do it...don't buy it....don't pursue it.

Educate yourself or ask a professional in person, on these Boards, or a friend or family member with experience.

[GoldFinger1969]

My 1923-D:

Edited June 25, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 7:49 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Do you have a budget ?  I've seen the MS-65's under $3K but the MS-66's (got one at FUN 2020) are now closer to $4K.

No budget, but I see coins as an investment, so I don’t want to buy anything that has a high premium which might drop.  

[silvergold1700]

On 6/24/2022 at 8:30 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

My 1923-D:

It’s a beauty.  Definitely can see the quality difference from MS-65.

[RWB]

Think of them as a long-term investment in personal enjoyment, history, finance and numismatics. If you'd spent the money on a snow blower, it'd be useless most of the time.

Edited June 26, 2022 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:54 PM, silvergold1700 said:

No budget, but I see coins as an investment, so I don’t want to buy anything that has a high premium which might drop.  

Do NOT look at them as an investment.  This is a hobby.

You should look at the premiums to underlying metal content in historical context.  They are in fair value right now I would say -- not cheap, not expensive.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:57 PM, RWB said:

Think of them as a long-term investment in personal enjoyment, history, finance and numismatics. If you'd spent them money on a snow blower, it's be useless most of the time.

Unless you live in Alaska....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/25/2022 at 4:55 PM, silvergold1700 said:

It’s a beauty.  Definitely can see the quality difference from MS-65.

Thanks.....excellent luster on the coin, showed it to some vets at FUN 2020 and they liked it, too.

Looked at some 66+ and CAC coins but the price jump was $1,000 or more. 

[Just Bob]

On 6/24/2022 at 3:23 PM, silvergold1700 said:

What is your opinion of this video on removing copper spots with an eraser?  I’m completely ignorant on the subject.  

 

I suggest staying away from youtube when looking for advice on coins. Most of the videos posted on there are full of half-truths and lies. They are only designed to get views.