Beginner Gold Coins Thread: Indian Heads, Liberty DEs, & Saint-Gaudens DEs 0

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:02 AM, Woods020 said:

I think you believe collectors tie the price of the coins to gold price more than they actually do. No argument gold coins are primarily driven by intrinsic value, but the coins won’t fluctuate as exact as gold spot. They will go up and down, but gold spot going down $150 will do little for the coin prices.

I was assuming he was buying a bullion substitute or the 2 coins above which I believe will move dollar-for-dollar with the gold price or pretty much close to it. 

[J P M]

On 3/18/2022 at 11:53 PM, Woods020 said:

Doubtful in today’s market. This isn’t the market to find deals. Gold is especially on fire right now. I seriously doubt you beat that for a mint state slabbed double Eagle by much. Nothing is impossible but it will be quite the challenge to get it at $2250 even. 

I agree you have to ring the bell at $2000 to get it for $2240 with a BP of 12% and a DE is a hard find in MS for that. I will have to pick a really good song and put on my dancing shoes to get that 04 or 08 for $2250. Maybe tears will help. LoL

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:57 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

By numismatic, I include anything with a premium of over 10%.  So an MS-65 1924 qualifies.

Any coins or grades intrigue you ?

I always flirt with the idea of a gold type set.  But, every time I have enough money for a gold coin... I buy copper.  I don't regret buying the copper coins, but when I see threads like this... makes me wish I had a few gold coins.  

One of the main gold coins I would like would be the $10 Indian.  However, of all the gold coins, I feel like this one almost has to be in high grade to be attractive.  To me, the $10 liberty has the face that very much resembles the Peace Dollar.  However, I know that she is technically a "Saint" and not a "Francisci".

 

[J P M]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:17 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I agree you have to ring the bell at $2000 to get it for $2240 with a BP of 12% and a DE is a hard find in MS for that. I will have to pick a really good song and put on my dancing shoes to get that 04 or 08 for $2250. Maybe tears will help. LoL

In the end neither coin is going to be a big return do to the high mintage. The big thing with DE's is after the $2400 basic range it jumps up to 3000 and then on to infinity

On 3/19/2022 at 2:08 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I was assuming he was buying a bullion substitute or the 2 coins above which I believe will move dollar-for-dollar with the gold price or pretty much close to it. 

I find the numismatic value of any coin has more of a chance when it goes up in price to stay there. Bullion goes wherever it is told to. But this is why I am here to look and learn. I thank you all for you insight it is priceless. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:41 AM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

One of the main gold coins I would like would be the $10 Indian.  

It's dated, but if you want a primer on Indian Head Gold Eagles ($10), the Akers/Ambio 20th Century United States Gold Coins, 1907-1933 is a great resource.

[RWB]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:00 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

 I do not have a single numismatic gold coin. 

I think married ones might be available, but check with the local priest or televangelist pickpocket,,,the rules vary.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:17 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I agree you have to ring the bell at $2000 to get it for $2240 with a BP of 12% and a DE is a hard find in MS for that. I will have to pick a really good song and put on my dancing shoes to get that 04 or 08 for $2250. Maybe tears will help. LoL

In late January I saw a mid-AU for under $2,000 (including bp) at HA.  If gold trades in the low-1900's you should see these prices come down a bit.

Unless you have a definite desire for a MS coin, you could still get a very nice-looking one in AU-58 or AU-55 and save some $$$.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/19/2022 at 8:42 AM, J P Mashoke said:

In the end neither coin is going to be a big return do to the high mintage.

Remember, it's not mintage that determines future likely returns or numismatic value....it's SURVIVORSHIP. 

On 3/19/2022 at 8:42 AM, J P Mashoke said:

The big thing with DE's is after the $2400 basic range it jumps up to 3000 and then on to infinity

There are coins that fill the $$$ spectrum, just have to look and be patient.  A 1908 NM in MS-65 with a CAC or OGH will be in the high-2's.  And before infinity, same coin in MS-66 will be low-to-mid $3's.

[Woods020]

On 3/19/2022 at 7:17 AM, J P Mashoke said:

I agree you have to ring the bell at $2000 to get it for $2240 with a BP of 12% and a DE is a hard find in MS for that. I will have to pick a really good song and put on my dancing shoes to get that 04 or 08 for $2250. Maybe tears will help. LoL

Play up that gold is trending down. Dealers work off tiny tiny margins on common gold. They may make $100 on a $2000 investment. Their biggest fears are both holding it very long and the money being tied up or gold going down and them holding the bag. They only do ok on common gold turning and burning it quick and often. 
 

if they don’t take it let me know. I can probably get you some for the $2250 price. 

[GoldFinger1969]

If any of you are interested in Indian Head Coins, there's a Jim O'Neal Catalog of $10 Saint-Gaudens for sale on Ebay that looks pretty good. 

[JKK]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:04 PM, Woods020 said:

Play up that gold is trending down. Dealers work off tiny tiny margins on common gold. They may make $100 on a $2000 investment. Their biggest fears are both holding it very long and the money being tied up or gold going down and them holding the bag. They only do ok on common gold turning and burning it quick and often. 
 

if they don’t take it let me know. I can probably get you some for the $2250 price. 

When I worked at the coin shop, the people we hated above all were the gold buyers and sellers. The buyers, who were there to spend Biiiiig Money, expected their derrieres to be smooched Real Hard because we were going to be making Big Money on them (we were such vampires, you know, preying on the poor metal hoarder), and often went insane when we charged them about $20 above melt per ounce (as if we were somehow breaking the law). The sellers were even worse. Bringing gold, they expected us to kiss up to them; they were shocked to find that we didn't quite pay melt, and that we weren't even very excited about any of it. And in the meantime, they kept throwing out conversational leads inviting us to endorse their world views.

To anyone who thought it through, of course, the reason would be obvious. Let's see: how about we tie up thousands of dollars of capital in something tethered to a metric we cannot control, on which we will probably lose money anyway because of when people buy and sell it, and when even at flat pricing our margin is about 5% or less, and where buyers and sellers are unbearable. Yeah, let's go deep on that. We could have spent that money on world coins and gotten far better margin; ditto for old currency, even US coins.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:38 AM, JKK said:

When I worked at the coin shop, the people we hated above all were the gold buyers and sellers. The buyers, who were there to spend Biiiiig Money, expected their derrieres to be smooched Real Hard because we were going to be making Big Money on them (we were such vampires, you know, preying on the poor metal hoarder), and often went insane when we charged them about $20 above melt per ounce (as if we were somehow breaking the law). The sellers were even worse. Bringing gold, they expected us to kiss up to them; they were shocked to find that we didn't quite pay melt, and that we weren't even very excited about any of it. And in the meantime, they kept throwing out conversational leads inviting us to endorse their world views. To anyone who thought it through, of course, the reason would be obvious. Let's see: how about we tie up thousands of dollars of capital in something tethered to a metric we cannot control, on which we will probably lose money anyway because of when people buy and sell it, and when even at flat pricing our margin is about 5% or less, and where buyers and sellers are unbearable. Yeah, let's go deep on that. We could have spent that money on world coins and gotten far better margin; ditto for old currency, even US coins.

I'm not surprised you saw this.  Alot of people who are "Gold Bugs" and PM collectors are quirky and a bit eccentric -- not to mention cheap. 

I'm happy my LCS and others make a few $$$ buying and selling from me.  It's the cost of LIQUIDITY which means that when I have to sell something they are there to buy from me even if I only get 97% of spot bullion.  I'm happy to pay it.

One thing I noted is the LCS's in my area have NO INTEREST whatsoever in buying Silver Certificates specifically and most paper money generally.  I think one guy said he'd give me like $10.50 or something like that for 10 SCs.

Edited March 20, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[Woods020]

On 3/20/2022 at 10:38 AM, JKK said:

When I worked at the coin shop, the people we hated above all were the gold buyers and sellers. The buyers, who were there to spend Biiiiig Money, expected their derrieres to be smooched Real Hard because we were going to be making Big Money on them (we were such vampires, you know, preying on the poor metal hoarder), and often went insane when we charged them about $20 above melt per ounce (as if we were somehow breaking the law). The sellers were even worse. Bringing gold, they expected us to kiss up to them; they were shocked to find that we didn't quite pay melt, and that we weren't even very excited about any of it. And in the meantime, they kept throwing out conversational leads inviting us to endorse their world views.

To anyone who thought it through, of course, the reason would be obvious. Let's see: how about we tie up thousands of dollars of capital in something tethered to a metric we cannot control, on which we will probably lose money anyway because of when people buy and sell it, and when even at flat pricing our margin is about 5% or less, and where buyers and sellers are unbearable. Yeah, let's go deep on that. We could have spent that money on world coins and gotten far better margin; ditto for old currency, even US coins.

Throw in a credit card payment you didn’t account for in some way and the dealer has a bad day. I learned quickly I don’t care to fool with common gold. Not worth it. Let the big bullion dealers have it. 

[JKK]

On 3/20/2022 at 9:52 AM, Woods020 said:

Throw in a credit card payment you didn’t account for in some way and the dealer has a bad day. I learned quickly I don’t care to fool with common gold. Not worth it. Let the big bullion dealers have it. 

Yep. Most places don't take plastic for bullion. What's most hilarious is when people pronounce it like "bouillon," which is a soup component. It was all I could do not to say "grocery store is down the road a little ways."

[Woods020]

On 3/20/2022 at 12:04 PM, JKK said:

Yep. Most places don't take plastic for bullion. What's most hilarious is when people pronounce it like "bouillon," which is a soup component. It was all I could do not to say "grocery store is down the road a little ways."

Come down here to the south. We can make bullion into atleast 6 or 8 syllables. 

[J P M]

Like Bullyain

[Woods020]

On 3/20/2022 at 1:06 PM, J P Mashoke said:

Like Bullyain

JP this reminds me of a funny story. A coworker at my previous job grew up in Augusta Georgia until she was 13 until father was relocated to the Boston area for work. She was picked on in school for her southern drawl, so they put her in speech therapy to get rid of it. Fast forward now and she is roughly 50 with the thickest Boston accent You can imagine. From one extreme to the other. From my world to yours hahaha

Edited March 20, 2022 by Woods020

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:03 PM, J P Mashoke said:

Well now that I have gotten my feet wet I want to show two pieces I am looking at and get some ideas from the guys who know. I have a choice on one of these I can purchase for $2300.  Both are common and are not key dates that gaining very fast. So the question is should I just grab one at that price and do a lot of praying or pass and look for a better coin down the road. The Saint has a nice knee and nose and the LH has a over all clean look. Sorry the pictures are not that great. Any comments are welcome please.

Here's a nice AU-58 CAC 1908 NM that ends within the hour and including the bp. is under $2,100:

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1117392/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-PCGS-AU-58-CAC

Edited March 21, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[Woods020]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:16 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Here's a nice AU-58 CAC 1908 NM that ends within the hour and including the bp. is under $2,100:

https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1117392/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-PCGS-AU-58-CAC

If going for closest to spot as possible circulated gets you much closer. It makes a big difference 

[J P M]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:02 AM, Woods020 said:

If going for closest to spot as possible circulated gets you much closer. It makes a big difference 

It was a good piece and was very cheap like me lol. Still it was a common date coin. After thinking about a investment  of 2k  I have resided to wait and see if I can find something in my travels. I kinda want a coin that will be nice to look at more than just a piece of metal. It is not like I am going to buy up a bunch of gold. Just looking for offbeat stuff like one of each denomination or series for there design and looks is more my style. I am happy with a lot of the online purchase's and deals I have found. None of my coins are big collectibles just a poor working man collection. A pinch of Nickel here a dash of Morgan there is the way I cook.  I think for me finding that just right Morgan or Eagle will most likely be a in hand coin sale. Call me crazy but it is that old fashion coin collector thing in me. You all have been a big help and I appreciate your knowledge, guidance and honesty. As I always say there is no rush it may just cost me a bit more down the road.     

Edited March 21, 2022 by J P Mashoke

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:02 AM, Woods020 said:

If going for closest to spot as possible circulated gets you much closer. It makes a big difference 

It's an 8% premium to the price of gold, 11-12% if you account for the sub-1 ounce of gold in a Saint.  You have the highest AU grade (58)...AND the CAC sticker.  Probably an easy coin to sell if you have to.

Personally, if I wasn't going to buy an MS-66 or higher for a 1908 NM, I'd go down to the AU-58 level rather than low-to-mid 60's. 

But that's just me.