Upcoming Baltimore Show, 31 March................ 2 2

[Coinbuf]

On 3/19/2022 at 5:47 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's interesting because the one thing we've heard the last 2 years is that dealers have no inventory and are able to sell what they get online and enjoy higher margins.

Some copper has been the exception to this rule, half and large cents while still in demand have taken a side seat in the current market rush.   Silver and gold coins, especially large silver and gold coins are front and center, at least that is my take on the market currently.

Edited to add:

While it is true that we hear a fair amount of groaning and moaning about dealers that complain they cannot get inventory, at the same time every show report I read is loaded with accounts of collectors buying multiple 5 figure coins.   That begs the question, if material really is that difficult to obtain what are these collectors buying at these shows for such large sums of money.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Coinbuf

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

Some copper has been the exception to this rule, half and large cents while still in demand have taken a side seat in the current market rush.   Silver and gold coins, especially large silver and gold coins are front and center, at least that is my take on the market currently. Edited to add:  While it is true that we hear a fair amount of groaning and moaning about dealers that complain they cannot get inventory, at the same time every show report I read is loaded with accounts of collectors buying multiple 5 figure coins.   That begs the question, if material really is that difficult to obtain what are these collectors buying at these shows for such large sums of money.

And I have learned that the Big Action takes place among the dealers themselves BEFORE the shows start, or very early on Day 1 when they open.  I never knew that.

I've heard that 80% of all the activity/dealer activity could be done pre-show.

[Coinbuf]

On 3/19/2022 at 10:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

And I have learned that the Big Action takes place among the dealers themselves BEFORE the shows start, or very early on Day 1 when they open.  I never knew that.

I've heard that 80% of all the activity/dealer activity could be done pre-show.

All true, that is why you will see some empty tables (or nearly so) at the large shows by Friday.    Many dealers are there only to drop off show submissions, lot viewing, facilitate buying on dealer setup day, and to service a few whale customers.   They accomplish all that by close of business Thursday and will perhaps leave a token display case with one or two coins and a company sign in the case and maybe (rarely) one person for Friday to answer questions or direct the public to the website.  I can think of three firms that consider, and refer to themselves as premier dealers, that operate this way for the Long Beach show.   From what I have read and heard that is true for these firms at other big shows as well, they are not there to deal with the general public.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Coinbuf

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:24 AM, Coinbuf said:

I can think of three firms that consider, and refer to themselves as premier dealers, that operate this way for the Long Beach show.   From what I have read and heard that is true for these firms at other big shows as well, they are not there to deal with the general public.

At FUN 2020 -- which opened on a Thursday -- I would say there were no noticeable abandonded booths until Saturday, Day 3 of the event.  Thursday and Friday very busy and full with tables staffed.

Some departures Friday afternoon.

Edited March 20, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

I heard from an unreliable source that the active dealers block off the restrooms and negotiate from stall to stall transactions. It also give them a convenient place to scrub, dip and launder coins. The source was sitting at the same dinner table and was absolutely unpeckable.

[tj96]

Hey-

Since this is my thread, I have a question.     I know the answer is probably out here somewhere, I'm just to lazy to look for it.

If NGC will be at this show (and they will be), will they accept submissions?  If so, what's the process?

[Coinbuf]

On 3/20/2022 at 2:14 PM, tj96 said:

Hey-

Since this is my thread, I have a question.     I know the answer is probably out here somewhere, I'm just to lazy to look for it.

If NGC will be at this show (and they will be), will they accept submissions?  If so, what's the process?

I do not know if they are accepting submissions myself the process is simple.   Have your forms and coins filled out before you go to the show, then stand in line.     A good question for the ask NGC section or perhaps if we tag @DWLange he can provide the answer on if submissions will be accepted.

[tj96]

Thanks Coinbuf!

[DWLange]

Yes, NGC will be accepting submissions at the Baltimore show. I'll be working the booth myself, along with several other members of the NGC/PMG teams. Typically, we stop taking submissions around 11am on Saturday, since we have to have everything boxed when FedEx arrives.

We strongly urge that you have your forms filled out before coming to the NGC booth, because there are a limited numbers of chairs available. At this show there are several large, round tables in the open area in front of the grading services that are suitable for filling out paperwork. If we're really busy, a person filling out forms at the booth may be asked to relocate to the tables until ready to submit.

[Alex in PA.]

On 3/20/2022 at 4:46 PM, RWB said:

unpeckable.

excuse please but is this a legitimate word?  

[tj96]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:29 PM, DWLange said:

Yes, NGC will be accepting submissions at the Baltimore show. I'll be working the booth myself, along with several other members of the NGC/PMG teams. Typically, we stop taking submissions around 11am on Saturday, since we have to have everything boxed when FedEx arrives.

We strongly urge that you have your forms filled out before coming to the NGC booth, because there are a limited numbers of chairs available. At this show there are several large, round tables in the open area in front of the grading services that are suitable for filling out paperwork. If we're really busy, a person filling out forms at the booth may be asked to relocate to the tables until ready to submit.

Thanks Dave.

[RWB]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:50 PM, Alex in PA. said:

excuse please but is this a legitimate word?  

Unpeckable = "Not peckable," as in a pun on "impeccable."

[Henri Charriere]

[This has been gnawing away at my brain now for four months. Sources, regardless of attempts at wordsmithing--and @Oldhoopster may correct me if I am wrong, are usually referred to as unimpeachable.  Now, if the source was dressed impeccably, that's an entirely different matter. So sayeth Quintus...]

[Oldhoopster]

On 7/31/2022 at 12:18 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

[This has been gnawing away at my brain now for four months. Sources, regardless of attempts at wordsmithing--and @Oldhoopster may correct me if I am wrong, are usually referred to as unimpeachable.  Now, if the source was dressed impeccably, that's an entirely different matter. So sayeth Quintus...]

That would be a great post....if this was a lexicography forum.  Last I checked this was still a numismatic forum.

I think if your pulling up 4 month old threads about a coin show that is long since over because the word usage bothers you, you have more to worry about than whether another member corrects you.  

One last thing.  Can you explain why you felt the need to tag me in old thread in which I've never responded?  Is there a purpose, or are you just trying to stir things up?  I seem to recall that you specifically commented that the mods had you on a short leash. 

 

 

 

[RWB]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, Coinbuf said:

 That begs the question, if material really is that difficult to obtain what are these collectors buying at these shows for such large sums of money.

They are paying inflated prices for overgraded coins in TPG plastic holders.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:07 AM, RWB said:

They are paying inflated prices for overgraded coins in TPG plastic holders.

If supply is short, raise price to meet demand.  Economics 101.

Maybe supply was artificially cut in 2020 since coin shows and even visits to a LCS were kaput. 

[RWB]

On 7/31/2022 at 10:57 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If supply is short, raise price to meet demand.  Economics 101.

OR --- If supply is short, reduce quality and raise price claiming "New and Improved." Economic Reality 101.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:10 AM, RWB said:

OR --- If supply is short, reduce quality and raise price claiming "New and Improved." Economic Reality 101.

Well, the TPG grades in theory reduce that likelihood.  If gold is unchanged in price from some fixed time a while back, then MS-65's and MS-63 generic bullion substitutes for a 1924 Saint shouldn't have moved materially.

I see a SLIGHT premium in the weekly auctions I watch, but nothing dramatic.  I don't see MS-65's getting MS-66 money.

[RWB]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:42 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, the TPG grades in theory reduce that likelihood.

..but not in reality because the "grades" are unstable, and continued grade inflation pushes inferior coins into superior "grade" labels. The absurdity of "AU-50" is an excellent example. These things have been EF coins for generations. Now, by their individual dictate and fiat, TPGs are declaring them "About Uncirculated."

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 11:57 AM, RWB said:

..but not in reality because the "grades" are unstable, and continued grade inflation pushes inferior coins into superior "grade" labels. The absurdity of "AU-50" is an excellent example. These things have been EF coins for generations. Now, by their individual dictate and fiat, TPGs are declaring them "About Uncirculated."

I think that is mostly over, RWB, at least in alot of the larger gold and silver coins where most stuff has been properly graded and/or already re-submitted. 

I still see threads over ATS and elsewhere about a particular U.S. coin -- the Franklin Gradeflation Thread being a classic -- but I don't think that MS-65 Saints are getting MS-66 grades in any quantity.

And if that happens.....well....then CAC is our best friend. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

On 7/31/2022 at 12:35 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think that is mostly over, RWB, at least in alot of the larger gold and silver coins where most stuff has been properly graded and/or already re-submitted. 

I still see threads over ATS and elsewhere about a particular U.S. coin -- the Franklin Gradeflation Thread being a classic -- but I don't think that MS-65 Saints are getting MS-66 grades in any quantity.

And if that happens.....well....then CAC is our best friend. 

The effect is not over -- the quality vs real condition has slid downward, so buyers are getting less value for their money.

[DWLange]

Quote

The absurdity of "AU-50" is an excellent example. These things have been EF coins for generations. Now, by their individual dictate and fiat, TPGs are declaring them "About Uncirculated."

Use of the AU grade goes back to the 1950s or earlier. Here's the first installment of a serial article in The Numismatist that ran during 1956.

[Henri Charriere]

On 7/31/2022 at 8:47 AM, Oldhoopster said:

That would be a great post....

I humbly accept the honor of being recognized by you.  

I think if your pulling up 4 month old threads about a coin show that is long since over...

The matter I found confounding was, the coin show, came and went and no one, not even the OP, deemed it worthy of a follow-up. The word-play simply emphasized the lack of follow-through, positive or negative.

One last thing.  Can you explain why you felt the need to tag me in old thread in which I've never responded? 

Yes, as you may have occasion to recall, you rather explicitly barred me from PMg you in, I might add, a dignified and respectful manner.

I seem to recall that you specifically commented that the mods had you on a short leash. 

They most certainly do. I do not receive timely notifications. Hence, my new role borne of necessity is having been reduced to retreading threads, which really aren't as "old" as you seem to feel they are. @RWBdelves into centuries old Archival material which no one has ever seen. You once stated no member should be accorded "unconditional immunity," but a fair reading of the Chat Board Guidelines explicitly states why that may occur. There are a few well-known members who have distinguished themselves in numismatics. NGC, in their infinite wisdom, has given them wide berth to engage in their unique way of communication. There is one notable member, still relatively new, who accompanies his posts with photos of road signs. ROAD SIGNS! I dare say you, and a few other similarly minded members instictively know better than to chastise a top Leader Board member, loved by all, for his occasional deviations from numysticism.

To Moderation, if it pleases the gentleman I have the utmost regard for, from ever uttering his name on the Forum again, his wish (and yours) is my command. Q.A.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by Quintus Arrius
Die polishing: seamless readability.

[Oldhoopster]

On 7/31/2022 at 5:50 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

 

 

You wrote

To Moderation, if it pleases the gentleman I have the utmost regard for, from ever uttering his name on the Forum again, his wish (and yours) is my command. Q.A.

It's about time.  Nothing like a semi-sarcastic comment to endear yourself to the moderators.

Go ahead and respond directly to my comments.  But I'm still wondering why you feel the need to keep tagging me in unrelated conversations?  You never provided an answer in your previous soliloquy. Did you feel that it was imperative that I read your comment regarding incorrect word usage in old posts?  If so, why?  Or are you just trying to stir the pot and cause trouble?

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:35 PM, DWLange said:

Use of the AU grade goes back to the 1950s or earlier. Here's the first installment of a serial article in The Numismatist that ran during 1956.

Dave, do you have any general thoughts on "gradeflation" and/or the role of CAC ?

Edited July 31, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 6:53 PM, Oldhoopster said:

It's about time.  Nothing like a semi-sarcastic comment to endear yourself to the moderators.  Go ahead and respond directly to my comments.  But I'm still wondering why you feel the need to keep tagging me in unrelated conversations?  You never provided an answer in your previous soliloquy. Did you feel that it was imperative that I read your comment regarding incorrect word usage in old posts?  If so, why?  Or are you just trying to stir the pot and cause trouble?  

QA is an acquired taste, like someone who talks in rhymes or pentamic whateveritscalled. 

Seriously, his off-beat method of posting is akin to William F. Buckley, Jr. talking to his political opponents.

However, do not confuse his erratic, eclectic, unique writing style for trolling....there are kernels of wisdom in his posts, just look at the RWB Saints Book Thread, for instance. 

And of course, there's Roosters.......  

Edited July 31, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[Oldhoopster]

On 7/31/2022 at 7:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

QA is an acquired taste, like someone who talks in rhymes or pentamic whateveritscalled. 

Seriously, his off-beat method of posting is akin to William F. Buckley, Jr. talking to his political opponents.

However, do not confuse his erratic, eclectic, unique writing style for trolling....there are kernels of wisdom in his posts, just look at the RWB Saints Book Thread, for instance. 

And of course, there's Roosters.......  

You said

QA is an acquired taste,

So are anchovies, liver, and broccoli 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 7/31/2022 at 7:49 PM, Oldhoopster said:

You said  QA is an acquired taste, So are anchovies, liver, and broccoli

I like anchovies, especially on a pizza !!   Broccoli isn't bad, if you have some lemon on it. 

[Henri Charriere]

To the OP:  The post, of a wagging finger to which you spontaneously responded, "What's that?" ranks as one of my all-time favorites. After you, they broke the mold.