AU details / Cleaned question 0

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Hello coin lovers, this newbie has learned his lesson on online auction purchases. I got some decent prices basing my bid on description and minimum UNC prices, but unfortunately some were cleaned after I had them graded . I realize lost a little money but it's a learning experience. How can I tell what these coins are worth (I know melt value LOL).

1935 Peace Dollar - AU details cleaned

1928 Peace Dollar - AU details cleaned

1892 Morgan Dollar - UNC details cleaned

Thanx  

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Correction: the 1928 Peace is a S mint mark.

[Mohawk]

That's a tough question.  The one thing you could do is look on eBay and see what other Details graded coins of those dates have sold for.  That's one way.  When I first started out and got some Details grades, I'd just list them on eBay and let them sell for what they sold for, which is what I would recommend for you if you're planning to sell those coins.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Mohawk
Typo

[Mr.Bill347]

Welcome to the forum ldhall. That’s a tough lesson. One that I have learned quite a few times, even yesterday when I bought what I thought was an MS coin, and after posting here, my friends pointed out that it was a low AU, which I overpaid for. I even have bought a Morgan which I sent in for grading two years ago and it came back NOT Genuine, a counterfeit!. So I feel your pain. Buying coins from a common source or entity carry these risks. You can prevent these costly mistakes by purchasing from a reputable, ANA dealer, or already graded coins. The fact that they were cleaned, at least they were graded at AU, which is a plus. Because at the very least, you know they are genuine coins. As I stated yesterday, we learn from our mistakes. Sometimes it is very tough to determine, but I can tell you that you can trust the guys on this forum and impossible check with a quick posting to see what they say. To further demonstrate my point are the two 1921 Morgan coins . One an NGC graded MS63, the other I bought yesterday and the professionals here felt that it wasn’t up to MS standards. I’m ok with it, because it wasn’t a large sum over what I should have paid for it and I am not sending it to be graded. Bottom line use this resource.

thank you.

[Coinbuf]

Valuing cleaned coins is tough because the kind of cleaning and the severity of the cleaning will have an impact on the value.   If the cleaning is just a lite wipe then it will be worth more than a coin that has been scrubbed harshly.   Without seeing the coins the only advice I can offer is to start at the grade you think each coin would grade at if it was not damaged and then subtract a percentage of that price depending on the severity of the issues it has.    If you can plainly see significant cleaning lines then it could be 50% or more of a deduction, if just a lite wipe with only faint hairlines perhaps a deduction of 15-20%.

I'm sorry for your experience, the only solace I can provide is that it is a very common one for those just getting started in coin collecting and many have been through this.  @Mohawk's suggestion of putting them on ebay in a no reserve auction is the best way to really find out what the market value is.   Or you could keep them as a learning tool of what not to do in future purchases.

[VKurtB]

There are two issues with your case.

1) You bought two of them as BU, lower BU. They were AU.

2) All three were harshly cleaned. 
 

There is only one remedy to both. More knowledge, and looking at many more coins before buying. Both needs are one and the same.

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

First, I would like to state that all the feedback was absolutely correct and greatly appreciated ! I must study more and be more patience in purchases. Although I have joined a local coin club there aren't any nearby coin shops. I think purchasing raw coins at online auctions is almost impossible due to enhanced pictures and ambiguous descriptions. I will post pictures when I get coins from grading company. Thanx again for advice. PS: I was advised earlier (on this forum) that this wasn't the time to collect Morgan and Peace dollars but I didn't listen  

[J P M]

On 10/18/2021 at 11:09 PM, ldhall said:

First, I would like to state that all the feedback was absolutely correct and greatly appreciated ! I must study more and be more patience in purchases. Although I have joined a local coin club there aren't any nearby coin shops. I think purchasing raw coins at online auctions is almost impossible due to enhanced pictures and ambiguous descriptions. I will post pictures when I get coins from grading company. Thanx again for advice. PS: I was advised earlier (on this forum) that this wasn't the time to collect Morgan and Peace dollars but I didn't listen  

 

I have to say with the price of silver down, now it is as good as it gets. I think when you did this the price was up high. I have four badly cleaned coins 3 were given to me so I cant complain and one I bought out of a grab bin without a loupe hoping it would be ok.  My rule of thumb now and forevermore is...... I never buy raw coins online and when I go the shops I Always bring a loupe when shopping I tried the magnifying glass but it is just not strong enough with these old eyes to pick up the small scratches.   

[VKurtB]

On 10/19/2021 at 5:05 AM, J P Mashoke said:

 

I have to say with the price of silver down, now it is as good as it gets. I think when you did this the price was up high. I have four badly cleaned coins 3 were given to me so I cant complain and one I bought out of a grab bin without a loupe hoping it would be ok.  My rule of thumb now and forevermore is...... I never buy raw coins online and when I go the shops I Always bring a loupe when shopping I tried the magnifying glass but it is just not strong enough with these old eyes to pick up the small scratches.   

Wait! WOW! We’re now talking about silver at just below $24 as being DOWN?!?!? Boy do you and I have a diametrically opposite view of THAT!!!!

To me, $24 silver is not just UP, it’s blind screaming bubble UP! I won’t touch generic silver right now if I were paid to.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/19/2021 at 1:40 PM, VKurtB said:

We’re now talking about silver at just below $24 as being DOWN?

Gotta agree with you Boss.  When I bought that pile of useless metal I have it was below $10.00.  And I am sorry for the day I ever bought it.  Dealers want to seel to you at 2021 prices and pay you 1980 prices on buy back.  Now gold - bought a handsome pile of that back some years before 9-11 and have held it since.  I'll be in Hades and the children will be drinking beer.   

[Modwriter]

On 10/18/2021 at 6:19 PM, Mohawk said:

That's a tough question.  The one thing you could do is look on eBay and see what other Details graded coins of those dates have sold for.  That's one way.  When I first started out and got some Details grades, I'd just list them on eBay and let them sell for what they sold for, which is what I would recommend for you if you're planning to sell those coins.

Hello Mohawk, did your Details graded coins sell quickly on eBay? One of the LCS here has a lot of Genuine Details graded coins for sale and I'm wondering if they can be resold on eBay. TIA

[Mohawk]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:05 PM, Modwriter said:

Hello Mohawk, did your Details graded coins sell quickly on eBay? One of the LCS here has a lot of Genuine Details graded coins for sale and I'm wondering if they can be resold on eBay. TIA

They sold quickly, but I wouldn't recommend buying Details graded coins at a coin shop and trying to sell them on eBay to try to make a profit.  You can undoubtedly sell them on eBay, but you'd likely end up losing money on the deal.  I've never made a profit on a Details graded coin in over 12 years of selling coins on eBay.

[J P M]

On 10/19/2021 at 1:40 PM, VKurtB said:

Wait! WOW! We’re now talking about silver at just below $24 as being DOWN?!?!? Boy do you and I have a diametrically opposite view of THAT!!!!

To me, $24 silver is not just UP, it’s blind screaming bubble UP! I won’t touch generic silver right now if I were paid to.

In May of 2021 it was up to $29  almost $30 so $24 I would say is down LoL

[VKurtB]

On 10/19/2021 at 4:35 PM, J P Mashoke said:

In May of 2021 it was up to $29  almost $30 so $24 I would say is down LoL

For me, we ain’t talking “down” until like $12. 

[J P M]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:25 PM, VKurtB said:

For me, we ain’t talking “down” until like $12. 

Well if it hits 12 It will never cover my ASE 

Edited October 19, 2021 by J P Mashoke

[VKurtB]

It needs to hit $17 before the bubble is past.

[GBrad]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:16 PM, VKurtB said:

It needs to hit $17 before the bubble is past.

I personally don't see precious metals going anywhere but up, with fluctuations in-between. I think the days of mid to low teens for silver and less than $1K for gold are well in the past.  Just my HO here. I hope I didn't open up a new can of worms.  

[Mohawk]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:09 PM, GBrad said:

I personally don't see precious metals going anywhere but up, with fluctuations in-between. I think the days of mid to low teens for silver and less than $1K for gold are well in the past.  Just my HO here. I hope I didn't open up a new can of worms.  

Nothing wrong with a humble opinion that is numismatically focused!!! I gave up caring what metals were doing or trying to predict it years ago.  Metal prices really do not impact ancient coin prices at all.....a denarius is the size of a dime but a Faustina the Younger denarius, who is one of the most common denarii, sells for at least $35 or so and denarii just go up from there.  A nice Caligula one can go for over $2,000!!  Those outstripped bullion prices long, long ago.  But, regarding silver, you could be correct.......solar panels eat up a decent amount of silver. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Mohawk

[VKurtB]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:09 PM, GBrad said:

I personally don't see precious metals going anywhere but up, with fluctuations in-between. I think the days of mid to low teens for silver and less than $1K for gold are well in the past.  Just my HO here. I hope I didn't open up a new can of worms.  

Do you seriously not know that silver was at $11.94 as recently as last year?? Not only don’t I believe it’s all up from here, I FULLY expect to see sub $10 silver again. It is how metals move - they vastly overreact on the way up and then bleed off for years and years. This time is NOT different. The need for silver in photovoltaics is SHRINKING RAPIDLY. 

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/07/06/amount-of-silver-needed-in-solar-cells-to-be-more-than-halved-by-2028-silver-institute-says/

TOTAL industrial use of silver remains WAAAAAY below where it was in the 1990’s at the peak of traditional photography. It may NEVER recover those use levels, even during this temporary photovoltaic boom.

There is ONE AND ONLY THING propping up silver prices now - people speculating on it by “stacking”. There are ZERO fundamentals behind it, just coin and metal buyers. There is no real “there” there.

It’s time to stop listening to William Devane’s stupid BS. He’s a complete charlatan and a fraud. There. I said it, and I stand by it, Rosland Capital. 
 

Yes, I know. He even likes the feeeel of gold and silver. Barf!

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

There is one error of judgment I see happening over and over on here - being in a hurry. You need to rid yourself of FOMO. There is no silver shortage. Morgan dollar supplies are not drying up. There is no rush. Holders of Morgan dollars keep dying at a fairly stout clip. Same with other coins. The late great J. H. Cline, once the top specialist in Standing Liberty Quarters, said often that he sold some of the same SLQ’s five, six, or more times. He sold them to collectors who died later. Rinse, repeat. Yes, once a coin that has been cleaned harshly, its future may be sealed. But DO NOT BE IN A HURRY TO ACQUIRE. There is plenty of good material out there. 

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

My hat goes off to VBurtB and powermad5000: Great advice and I realize I have to stop impulsive buying LOL Thanx again  

PS: does the grading companies ever put a grade on cleaned coins or just AU or UNC ?

[VKurtB]

On 10/22/2021 at 8:02 PM, ldhall said:

My hat goes off to VBurtB and powermad5000: Great advice and I realize I have to stop impulsive buying LOL Thanx again  

PS: does the grading companies ever put a grade on cleaned coins or just AU or UNC ?

No numeric grade. 

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Thanx again for all of the advice and the Good News is I've sold 2 of the 3 in about 3-4 days on ebay, and I was able to get very close to AU and UNC prices for the coins - not a total lost. Now I just have to continue to look for these coins in the desired grade for my personal collection