1964 Kennedy SMS could it be? 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:44 PM, zadok said:

thin ice territory...i do like that eagle though, but nick from my home territory....but ur clouder (pride) did themselves proud this week, just hope they can devour some buckeyes a bit later on....

Two types of eyes - Buck and Hawk. A media voter in the USA Today poll called into Paul Feinbaum today, and his top four were:

1) Georgia

2) Oregon

3) Penn State

4) Alabama

Feinbaum about swallowed his epiglottis. My standard is maximum ONE team from a conference in the National Semi-finals. Either Georgia OR ‘Bama, but never both. If we’re going to entertain THIS garbage, have a traditional Rose Bowl, and the SEC title game and go direct to a national title game. One and done. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by VKurtB

[Alex in PA.]

Penn State will have to do better than that Auburn game if they want a taste of Bama hospitality.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:59 AM, Alex in PA. said:

Q.A. - you're a funny guy....

"What do you mean I'm funny.... You mean the way I talk?  I'm funny how, like a clown?  I amuse you?  I make you laugh, I'm here to.... amuse you?" .  [Goodfellas, 1990.]

[Moxie15]

On 9/21/2021 at 2:49 PM, MarkFeld said:

There are many unusual and/or special coins for which there is no official documentation, among them, 1804 dollars, 1913 nickels, some Proof (classic) commemoratives and a number of patterns. 

I don't recall our conversation, but if my answer was along the lines of what you posted, I apologize for not providing a much better one. I could and would have described the differences in detail, were we siting face to face with some of those coins in hand. In lieu of that, my best option would have been to refer you to some of what has been written in auction lot descriptions of the coins and/or that provided by grading companies. However, if like RWB, you don't believe in the coins unless there's official documentation, there's no point in reading. 

The 'conversation was in a thread like this and not overly memorable. 

As to 

"However, if like RWB, you don't believe in the coins unless there's official documentation, there's no point in reading."

If you would have said this to my face you would have not finished the sentence. I BELIEVE IN  nothing. If you have to BELIEVE IN it for it to be real then It ain't real.

MY big issue is not if the coins exist it is what they are being named. They are not Special Mint Set.

The mint is a machine shop with a lot of employees doing a lot of things. I have worked in a machine shop and have first hand seen that not all things happening are documented or official.  You mention the 1913 nickels, These are obvious 'government work' as is the 1804 dollar 're-strikes'. Many popular varieties can be most reasonable explained as 'sabotage' or tinkering, ie misplaced numerals, extra leaves, and so forth, Branch mint 'proofs' are likely the work of a 'manager' who took the best die available, the nicest planchets, and some well placed and timed orders and instructions and voila! undocumented 'branch mint proofs' which he buys through the normal process and no one is the wiser. I again think they should be called proof-like, not proofs.

I think that the 1964 coins were made in such a way. They need to be called specimen or presentation of first strike but not SMS. 

[Henri Charriere]

Truth be told, the entire subject is superfluous. 

It reminds one of the father who told her daughter, Virginia O'Hanlon, If you see it in The Sun (a New York newspaper at the time) then you'll get your answer as to whether there is a Santa Claus.

Noticeably absent from all this discussion, with a persistent insistence on conclusive proof with official documentation is the sad tale of the boy who wrote the then Mint director a letter inquiring as to whether his 1943 copper cent was real and received a typically curt bureaucratic reply: None were authorized therefore none exist... Now get away from me kid, ya bother me.

So, to all the huffer-and-puffers out there demanding documentation, records, and the like, a simple question:  What would you have done if it were you standing in that boy's shoes in the pre-TPGS era?

[VKurtB]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:50 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

Truth be told, the entire subject is superfluous. 

It reminds one of the father who told her daughter, Virginia O'Hanlon, If you see it in The Sun (a New York newspaper at the time) then you'll get your answer as to whether there is a Santa Claus.

Noticeably absent from all this discussion, with a persistent insistence on conclusive proof with official documentation is the sad tale of the boy who wrote the then Mint director a letter inquiring as to whether his 1943 copper cent was real and received a typically curt bureaucratic reply: None were authorized therefore none exist... Now get away from me kid, ya bother me.

So, to all the huffer-and-puffers out there demanding documentation, records, and the like, a simple question:  What would you have done if it were you standing in that boy's shoes in the pre-TPGS era?

I’d be doing exactly what I would be doing from Morningside Heights - knowing that documentation is all nice and stuff when it exists, and when it was accurate in the first place, and when it hasn’t been lost, and when it hasn’t been destroyed, and when it hasn’t been “liberated”. The most used piece of office equipment when any government person’s term of service is about to end is the shredder. This I have seen first hand. Huge pallet sized boxes of documents going into an incinerator as well.

Edited September 22, 2021 by VKurtB

[Woods020]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:01 PM, VKurtB said:

They did. But they are far from an impartial source. Were they impartial, British tour-struck coins would be recognized as SP coins, but nooooooo. So what do the TPGS firms do? They recognize as special things that are probably not, and fail to recognize as special things that are. With a record like that, they could be SEC football officials. 

Same is true in the corporate world. We even have a process to have hard drives shredded once a computer is decommissioned. It’s kind of neat to see the large truck come on shredding days and take shredding bins down and throw them in to shred. Many business require shredding on site. Not sure about the government. 

[VKurtB]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:52 PM, Woods020 said:

Same is true in the corporate world. We even have a process to have hard drives shredded once a computer is decommissioned. It’s kind of neat to see the large truck come on shredding days and take shredding bins down and throw them in to shred. Many business require shredding on site. Not sure about the government. 

To governmental managers’ way of thinking, if it ain’t done on site, it never happened. They’re too paranoid to let anything get outside. We were advised to destroy nearly everything on site, BEFORE anyone could subpoena anything. 

[Henri Charriere]

Decades ago, historic documents, newspaper morgues,  yellowed books -- even the Dead Sea Scrolls, were photocopied. Warehouse space costs are prohibitive but I automatically assumed important documents, once microfilmed, were now being transferred to computer discs.  I am evidently unfamiliar with R-kive boxes marked, "Destroy by (date)" and those earmarked for preservation.

[VKurtB]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:15 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Decades ago, historic documents, newspaper morgues,  yellowed books -- even the Dead Sea Scrolls, were photocopied. Warehouse space costs are prohibitive but I automatically assumed important documents, once microfilmed, were now being transferred to computer discs.  I am evidently unfamiliar with R-kive boxes marked, "Destroy by (date)" and those earmarked for preservation.

When I was a County Election Director, all materials used to determine the outcome of any federal election had to be retained for 22 months after the election was held. None made it much farther then that. About two calendar years was it. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:02 AM, VKurtB said:

When I was a County Election Director, all materials used to determine the outcome of any federal election had to be retained for 22 months after the election was held. None made it much farther then that. About two calendar years was it. 

PA. may have been given a dispensation to account for rickety, wooden, covered bridges, the Tpke all shot to hell, inhospitable topography and roadside coin stands that slow traffic to a rubber-necking crawl.