Gone from Lincoln studies to Morgan VAM questions and studies (Oh My!!), help on this one please. 0

[GBrad]

Now that I have entered yet another realm of a different denomination of coin collecting (this hobby is addictive, proceed with caution and at your own risk)  I have a question about a VAM I may have.  Not that I have the patience to study the bazillion different VAM's out there, I did good to get a hold on Lincoln errors, nor do I have but only three Morgans now, I thought what the heck...... I'll take a look at Morgan varieties since I dearly love Lincoln varieties. Low and behold, I pulled out my newly acquired 1883 Philly Morgan I purchased last week at the Dalton Show and I may have a VAM here?  I now believe I realize these are the equivalents of errors and varieties, much like other denominations, but are called VAM's being the initials of the guy's names who started all of these brain itching varieties. I compared my coin to pictures of what is out there and I'm still not positive which one this is, or if it is one at all.  I would like a VAM lover here on the forum to help me out with this one.  As best I can tell this looks pretty close to the 1883 Philly Morgan VAM 10. My observations: The 1-83 in the date appear to show doubling, especially the 1.  The die crack off the 1 is consistent with VAM10.  This coin is still slabbed, NGC MS63, so it is hard to see the doubling on the stars, even harder to photograph through plastic, but I believe I can make out doubling on numerous stars on the obverse.   Am I even close? Is there another VAM for this year and mint that would match more closely? Or is this not even considered a VAM?  Several pics here but I couldn't decide which ones to choose due to different lighting so I just threw them all out there.  Thanks

[Woods020]

Can you PM me clear front and back pics and one fairly close up of the bottom of the breast and wings where they meet the body? I’ve learned a ton from the Vamworld guys. There is a systematic way to narrow it down but I need to determine which reverse die was used. 

[Woods020]

Or post them here actually. Not sure why I felt the needed PM’d 😂

[Woods020]

I will tell you I just spent over a week, a few hours a day, looking through 33 slabbed 78 8tf. VAMs for that one put you in an extra special level of hades. There are so many and the nuances are so small. I am finally done and they have been confirmed by someone else but it was more than I bargained for. None of them are are bad as that one.We can figure this one out easy peasy. I meant to check it before I mailed it and in my rush I forgot. 

[Woods020]

I thought this was the 83CC, but noticed it is the 83P. This is VAM 4 I’m pretty sure. Need to see whole coin to be positive but fairly certain. Check it out and some of the die markers with your coin. 
 

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1883-P_VAM-4

[GBrad]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:49 PM, Woods020 said:

I thought this was the 83CC, but noticed it is the 83P. This is VAM 4 I’m pretty sure. Need to see whole coin to be positive but fairly certain. Check it out and some of the die markers with your coin. 
 

http://ec2-13-58-222-16.us-east-2.compute.amazonaws.com/wiki/1883-P_VAM-4

Thanks a bunch Woods!  Yes, this is a Philly I got at the Dalton show last week and not the CC. I did look at that one too for doubling on the mm but it’s not there. I’m driving to Alabama at the moment. Would you still like for me to take other pics of the Philly and post them later today? I also looked at VAM world ( I believe that is the same link you referenced). I will check out VAM4 for sure. Thanks. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by GBrad

[Woods020]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:05 PM, GBrad said:

Thanks a bunch Woods!  Yes, this is a Philly I got at the Dalton show last week and not the CC. I did look at that one too for doubling on the mm but it’s not there. I’m driving to Alabama at the moment. Would you still like for me to take other pics of the Philly and post them later today? I also looked at VAM world ( I believe that is the same link you referenced). I will check out VAM4 for sure. Thanks. 

 No I’m 99% it’s VAM 4. When it’s convenient post pics of the obverse and I can confirm. Enjoy the promised land. I hope you are headed to your friends lake mansion and plan to be in the water because it’s HOT. I’m headed to the golf course a little later and have to give myself a pep talk to weather the heat. 
 

If you are interested in VAMs on your others or how to discern them in general message me. I’m not a pro at all but got an amazing crash course over the last week from John Barnhart, who is the man on these. He is past president of Silver Dollar Collectors Society. He also has an attribution company specifically for these and only charges $6. Super nice guy. I can give you some basics he taught me. 

[GBrad]

On 8/27/2021 at 3:17 PM, Woods020 said:

No I’m 99% it’s VAM 4.

Just looked at your link. Definitely VAM4. Pretty cool it was slabbed but not mentioned. I know that unless you request for an attribution service during a submission they won’t usually  include it unless it is so obviously apparent and then they ‘might’. At least that’s what I’ve read somewhere in the past. Thanks for figuring this one out for me! 
Neither PCGS or NGC recognizes any premiums for VAM4 on this coin. Only for VAM10 they do. Any idea if this 1883 P Morgan VAM4 has any additional value? Thanks!
 

[Woods020]

On 8/27/2021 at 2:29 PM, GBrad said:

Just looked at your link. Definitely VAM4. Pretty cool it was slabbed but not mentioned. I know that unless you request for an attribution service during a submission they won’t usually  include it unless it is so obviously apparent and then they ‘might’. At least that’s what I’ve read somewhere in the past. Thanks for figuring this one out for me! 
Neither PCGS or NGC recognizes any premiums for VAM4 on this coin. Only for VAM10 they do. Any idea if this 1883 P Morgan VAM4 has any additional value? Thanks!
 

Only a small subset of VAMs are attributed by NGC/PCGS. I think that’s why Variety Slabbing Service exists. To verify the others for VAM collectors. If you are on VAMWorld there is an icon next to the listing for PCGS/NGC/ANACS if they attribute. Of course you can look on NGC Variety Plus also to see what they attribute. But way more are not attributed than are. 
 

That VAM is and R-4 (rarity) which isn’t very rare. It may bring a slight premium to a vam guy but not much if any. The ones the TPGs attribute are the ones you want. They are the most dramatic and I think people want them for registries. Those are the ones that bring premiums. 

[GBrad]

Thanks @Woods020  I really appreciate your time and all the great info with your VAM knowledge you just helped me with, something I am just starting to “maybe” get into…… don’t know if I have the patience though…. Lol. Now go hit the links and enjoy your golf!!! And yes…. I am full bore into the lake when I get there in these hot temps!!  Thanks!!