1859 Canada One Cent need an expert please 0

[Kevine84]

I have a Canada Large One Cent Coin

I'm looking for help in identifying the Variety and Grade off this coin, there are so many different one I can't figure it out.

Cananyone shed some light for me please?

 

 

[Greenstang]

I’m not an expert on these as there are probably about 200 different varieties and die pairings with many being minor or sub varieties but looking at your coin, it is not a 9 over 8 nor do I see any repunched letters or numbers which make up most of the more valuable varieties so for now I would have to say it is just a regular 1859 Vickie although it could be a minor variety. Perhaps someone else with more knowledge could give there opinion.

Here is a source for information on vickies by the foremost expert

vickycents.com

Edited June 26, 2021 by Greenstang

[Kevine84]

21 minutes ago, Greenstang said:

I’m not an expert on these as there are probably about 200 different varieties and die pairings with many being minor or sub varieties but looking at your coin, it is not a 9 over 8 nor do I see any repunched letters or numbers which make up most of the more valuable varieties so for now I would have to say it is just a regular 1859 Vickie although it could be a minor variety. Perhaps someone else with more knowledge could give there opinion.

Here is a source for information on vickies by the foremost expert

vickycents.com

And here I was hoping for brass

[Greenstang]

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And here I was hoping for brass

Even that is sometimes debateable. Where do you draw the line between a Brass or Bronze coin.

You need a  XRF test to tell for sure.

[Just Bob]

20 hours ago, Greenstang said:

Even that is sometimes debateable. Where do you draw the line between a Brass or Bronze coin.

 

LIncoln cents have officially been made of brass since 1963, when the requirement to include tin was dropped, but they are still referred to as "Bronze" or sometimes "Copper." Apparently, most people don't "draw the line." 

[Greenstang]

I hear you Just Bob but in the the case of the 1859 cent, it makes a huge difference. There are only about 20 known Brass cents and command a huge premium so there is a definite reference between a Bronze and Brass cent.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Greenstang

[Just Bob]

5 hours ago, Greenstang said:

I hear you Just Bob but in the the case of the 1859 cent, it makes a huge difference. There are only about 20 known Brass cents and command a huge premium so there is a definite reference between a Bronze and Brass cent.

I just took a look at this issue, since I know nothing about it, and, yes, it definitely makes a difference with this coin. The problem seems to be that there is no way to tell the difference except by the color, and that can be unreliable. The weight and specific gravity are supposedly the same, or so close as to be almost undetectable. Add to this the theory (or possibly fact) that the brass coins were not a separate issue, but simply (supposedly) a mistake, or several mistakes, in the production of the planchet alloy, and you have no die markers to help distinguish these from any other die variety.

With over 200 varieties known, and the possibility of more existing, just for this one date, this is one of those coins that a person could spend a lifetime studying.

[Greenstang]

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there is no way to tell the difference except by the color, and that can be unreliable. 

Going by colour is not in any way a good way of telling. Coins that have been cleaned with whatever can change the colour of the coin to look like brass The only reliable way of telling is with an XRF test that can tell if there is 10% or more of zinc content.

Quote

With over 200 varieties known, and the possibility of more existing, just for this one date, this is one of those coins that a person could spend a lifetime studying.

You are correct. There are many Vickie collectors out there who specialize in these only. I have a friend who has amassed over 9000 Vickies and is an expert on them. There is also a book on just the 1859 varieties so it can be a hobby in itself. Personally I have a bout 6 of them so it is needless to say I am far from an expert.

[Conder101]

On 6/27/2021 at 5:30 PM, Just Bob said:

Apparently, most people don't "draw the line."

But when there are large value differences between "Brass" and "Bronze", you HAVE to draw the line.  Unfortunately I feel that most people try to just go by color to tell them apart and you just can't do that because color for both alloys can vary greatly, and cleaning of a bronze coins can often make it resemble a higher zinc content brass coin.  The only thing I would accept is an XRF test checking for a significant tin content.  No tin, it's brass, with tin it's bronze.