West Friesland Lion Daalder with low weight 0

[Frank Judge]

The spec for weight a Daalder is 27.68g but my coin weighs only 25.82g. Is it still possible that this coin is not counterfeit?  It is 40.7- 41.4mm diameter and 2.2- 2.4mm thick.  It shows diamagnetism to a rare earth magnet and passes the "ping test" of a coin tester app. The coin has plain edges with some flat spots AND no evidence of a seam. This first picture is the suspect coin.

I did find the following example on the Numista site with stated weight 26.70g.

 

Is my coin genuine even although it has such a low weight? 

[thebeav]

The nine tenths of a gram doesn't bother me as much as one detail that looks quite different on the two coins. The little symbol on either side of the "E T". Your coin looks like little flowers and the other coin looks like little diamonds. Those little rectangles in the two lion shield look dissimilar also. I don't know which is proper.

[Fenntucky Mike]

I've been poking around and it appears several dies (or fakes) were used, could be the lighting but the color looks weird as well. I've found that coin (your coin, I think) online but no others that match. I'm not familiar with this series, at all, but for what it's worth put me in the legit column. 51/50 

[Frank Judge]

Thanks for all the comments from other collectors  I found this today but I cant copy the photos

 

Link           Lion Dollar, West Friesland – Works – The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation (history.org)

Lion Dollar, West Friesland

DATE1604-1605

ORIGIN Europe, Netherlands, West Friesland

MEDIUM Silver

DIMENSIONS Diameter: 40 mm Weight: 25.3 grams

CREDIT LINE Gift of the Lasser family

OBJECT NUMBER1996-872,46

 

Obverse legend: "MO.ORD. WEST. FR. VALOR. HOL "
Reverse legend: "DEVS. FORTITVDO. ET. SPES. NOSTRA"
 

Minted from 1575 to 1731, Lion Dollars were produced by all of the Dutch provinces and the three Imperial cities, Deventer, Campen and Zwolle. Huge quantities were struck and although their weight was consistent and their silver quality was high, they were not like modern issues where virtually each and every piece is an exact duplicate of its predecessor and successor. Handmade dies were created with individual punches for letters, emblems and flourishes, etc, and a limited lifespan insured the creation of innumerable dies, resulting in countless variants of Lion Dollars.

They were common throughout the Mediterranean and eastward along the Silk Road to Persia. Fleets carried them not only to the Spice Islands and Philippines, but also to Latin America and North America, including the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam (later New York). Everywhere Dutch sailors and merchants traded, Lion Dollars, also popularly known as "Dog Dollars" were readily accepted as payment not only for food and supplies but also for exotic silks and spices.

This coin was countermarked with the shield of Alof de Wignacourt of Malta.
 

[Frank Judge]

Re: 1604 WEST FRIESLAND LION DAALDER



You replied on Mon 12/04/2021 12:30

NN

Noble Numismatics <Info@noble.com.au>

Mon 12/04/2021 08:12

To: You

 

Dear Frank,

 

 This coin is genuine.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jim Noble

 

Noble Numismatics Pty Ltd

Ground Floor, 169 Macquarie Street, Sydney

NSW 2000 (Australia)

Telephone: +61 (2) 9223 4578 | Fax: +61 (2) 9233 6009

www.noble.com.au
Twitter | Instagram

 

 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 02:41, Frank Judge <frank_judge77@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Noble,

 

In your "World Silver & Bronze Coins",  Sale  123,   31 March - 2 April 2020,  during Session 6 (9.30am Wednesday 1st April), you sold Lot 1574, a 1604 West Friesland Lion Daalder. I have included your photo of the lot here directly below:-

 

 

 

Subsequent to your sale, on 17th September 2020, I bought the coin from an Australian E Bay seller as item number 402326836368.  I have included the E Bay photo of the coin directly below:-

 

The 2 photos clearly show the same coin. The coin weighs 25.82g.  Can you please confirm to me that you believe that the coin is genuine and not a forgery?  Do you have any other photos of similar coins of this issue or any further information regarding it?

 

Thank you,

 

Frank Judge 

[Frank Judge]

Good news I had an expert form Noble in Australia authenticate the coin even with the missing gram in weight. Thanks for the input and information regarding the coin

[RWB]

Excellent, and very nice of Jim Noble to help. One might say that was a "noble" thing to do!

BTW - you can copy your computer's scree by pressing Alt-Sys/Req, then save to an image program. This will copy everything in the screen, even protected photos and text.

[Conder101]

Or if you are using Windows there is a tool called Snipping Tool which will allow you to create a box around any area on your screen and copy that to the clipboard.  It might also be listed as Snip & Sketch.  With those tools you don't have to copy the whole screen.

[Frank Judge]

I have researched the coin and here is a YouTube link to a very short film with text information commentary and music which I put together to accompany a decent photo.  I hope it contains some information on this Daalder which might be of interest.