Frank Judge

This is a link to the best short YouTube video on Peace Dollars. https://youtu.be/2ArV7GA48aw Listen carefully about what he says about the depth of relief for the 1921, 22 and 23 coins and I'm not talking about the error high relief 1922 coin. Are the 2021 coins high relief ? The only problem is the $85 price tag. No disrespect but I will stick with the $80 1921 coin I managed to find.

Apparently the mark is the Shield / Coat of arms for Dordrecht.

Hi All, Does anyone know what the mint mark is? It is above the sword after the word HOL at the top of the obverse. It looks a bit like and Utrecht shied, however, I thought provincial Holland coins of this date were minted in Dordrecht (Rosette) or Amsterdam (XXX) ? Thanks Frank

I have researched the coin and here is a YouTube link to a very short film with text information commentary and music which I put together to accompany a decent photo. I hope it contains some information on this Daalder which might be of interest.

I have researched the coin and here is a YouTube link to a very short film with text information commentary and music which I put together to accompany a decent photo. I hope it contains some information on this Daalder which might be of interest.

Good news I had an expert form Noble in Australia authenticate the coin even with the missing gram in weight. Thanks for the input and information regarding the coin

Re: 1604 WEST FRIESLAND LION DAALDER  You replied on Mon 12/04/2021 12:30 NN Noble Numismatics <Info@noble.com.au> Mon 12/04/2021 08:12 To: You Dear Frank, This coin is genuine. Kind regards, Jim Noble Noble Numismatics Pty Ltd Ground Floor, 169 Macquarie Street, Sydney NSW 2000 (Australia) Telephone: +61 (2) 9223 4578 | Fax: +61 (2) 9233 6009 www.noble.com.au Twitter | Instagram On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 02:41, Frank Judge <frank_judge77@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear Noble, In your "World Silver & Bronze Coins", Sale 123, 31 March - 2 April 2020, during Session 6 (9.30am Wednesday 1st April), you sold Lot 1574, a 1604 West Friesland Lion Daalder. I have included your photo of the lot here directly below:- Subsequent to your sale, on 17th September 2020, I bought the coin from an Australian E Bay seller as item number 402326836368. I have included the E Bay photo of the coin directly below:- The 2 photos clearly show the same coin. The coin weighs 25.82g. Can you please confirm to me that you believe that the coin is genuine and not a forgery? Do you have any other photos of similar coins of this issue or any further information regarding it? Thank you, Frank Judge

I had some good news regarding the coin!!!! See below but the photo cut and paste?? Thank you to all that responded with opinions and info. Re: 1604 WEST FRIESLAND LION DAALDER  You replied on Mon 12/04/2021 12:30 NN Noble Numismatics <Info@noble.com.au> Mon 12/04/2021 08:12 To: You Dear Frank, This coin is genuine. Kind regards, Jim Noble Noble Numismatics Pty Ltd Ground Floor, 169 Macquarie Street, Sydney NSW 2000 (Australia) Telephone: +61 (2) 9223 4578 | Fax: +61 (2) 9233 6009 www.noble.com.au Twitter | Instagram On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 at 02:41, Frank Judge <frank_judge77@hotmail.com> wrote: Dear Noble, The coin weighs 25.82g. Can you please tell me if you believe that the coin is genuine and not a forgery? Do you have any other photos of similar coins of this issue or any further information regarding it? Thank you, Frank Judge

The obverse (the night) of the 2 examples above and the further examples I found below are fairly similar. When you look at the lions on the reverse it is clear that the orientation of the lion compare to the text is not always the same. I think the lions all show some differences in angle of arms and legs. It seams for this year it is hard to find identical dies. It is noted that while the angle of the lions leg (at 7 o'clock) on the suspect above is different from other examples, it has the same general form and shows similar ware especially the 3 holes.

Thanks for all the comments from other collectors I found this today but I cant copy the photos Link Lion Dollar, West Friesland – Works – The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation (history.org) Lion Dollar, West Friesland DATE1604-1605 ORIGIN Europe, Netherlands, West Friesland MEDIUM Silver DIMENSIONS Diameter: 40 mm Weight: 25.3 grams CREDIT LINE Gift of the Lasser family OBJECT NUMBER1996-872,46 Obverse legend: "MO.ORD. WEST. FR. VALOR. HOL " Reverse legend: "DEVS. FORTITVDO. ET. SPES. NOSTRA" Minted from 1575 to 1731, Lion Dollars were produced by all of the Dutch provinces and the three Imperial cities, Deventer, Campen and Zwolle. Huge quantities were struck and although their weight was consistent and their silver quality was high, they were not like modern issues where virtually each and every piece is an exact duplicate of its predecessor and successor. Handmade dies were created with individual punches for letters, emblems and flourishes, etc, and a limited lifespan insured the creation of innumerable dies, resulting in countless variants of Lion Dollars. They were common throughout the Mediterranean and eastward along the Silk Road to Persia. Fleets carried them not only to the Spice Islands and Philippines, but also to Latin America and North America, including the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam (later New York). Everywhere Dutch sailors and merchants traded, Lion Dollars, also popularly known as "Dog Dollars" were readily accepted as payment not only for food and supplies but also for exotic silks and spices. This coin was countermarked with the shield of Alof de Wignacourt of Malta.

I found this today - it wont let me copy the pictures though!! Lion Dollar, West Friesland – Works – The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation (history.org) Lion Dollar, West Friesland DATE1604-1605 ORIGIN Europe, Netherlands, West Friesland MEDIUM Silver DIMENSIONS Diameter: 40 mm Weight: 25.3 grams CREDIT LINE Gift of the Lasser family OBJECT NUMBER1996-872,46 Obverse legend: "MO.ORD. WEST. FR. VALOR. HOL " Reverse legend: "DEVS. FORTITVDO. ET. SPES. NOSTRA" Minted from 1575 to 1731, Lion Dollars were produced by all of the Dutch provinces and the three Imperial cities, Deventer, Campen and Zwolle. Huge quantities were struck and although their weight was consistent and their silver quality was high, they were not like modern issues where virtually each and every piece is an exact duplicate of its predecessor and successor. Handmade dies were created with individual punches for letters, emblems and flourishes, etc, and a limited lifespan insured the creation of innumerable dies, resulting in countless variants of Lion Dollars. They were common throughout the Mediterranean and eastward along the Silk Road to Persia. Fleets carried them not only to the Spice Islands and Philippines, but also to Latin America and North America, including the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam (later New York). Everywhere Dutch sailors and merchants traded, Lion Dollars, also popularly known as "Dog Dollars" were readily accepted as payment not only for food and supplies but also for exotic silks and spices. This coin was countermarked with the shield of Alof de Wignacourt of Malta.

The spec for weight a Daalder is 27.68g but my coin weighs only 25.82g. Is it still possible that this coin is not counterfeit? It is 40.7- 41.4mm diameter and 2.2- 2.4mm thick. It shows diamagnetism to a rare earth magnet and passes the "ping test" of a coin tester app. The coin has plain edges with some flat spots AND no evidence of a seam. This first picture is the suspect coin. I did find the following example on the Numista site with stated weight 26.70g. Is my coin genuine even although it has such a low weight?

The spec for weight a Daalder is 27.68g but my coin weighs only 25.82g. Is it still possible that this coin is not counterfeit? It is 40.7- 41.4mm diameter and 2.2- 2.4mm thick. It shows diamagnetism to a rare earth magnet and passes the "ping test" of a coin tester app. The coin has plain edges with some flat spots AND no evidence of a seam. This first picture is the suspect coin. I did find the following example on the Numista site with stated weight 26.70g. Is my coin genuine even although it has such a low weight?

Can anyone recommend a London dealer for Ducats, Daalders, Ducatons and 8 Reales? Are there any London coin clubs with collectors interested in such coins? Is anyone on NGC site available to give advice on these coins?