Newbie Question 0

[Jfanth]

Sorry if I don’t know the correct terms, but is this doubling? Or off-center? Or both?

[Greenstang]

That is what is known as a misaligned die (MAD) on the Reverse. The Obverse looks normal.. Is It is not off enough to have any premium.

There is no Doubling on your coin.

Also please do not hold coins in your hand. Lay it on a flat surface to shoot your photos. If that was a valuable coin, your fingerprints would greatly reduce the value.

 

[Jfanth]

Thank you! Good to know!

[Sharann]

29 minutes ago, Greenstang said:

That is what is known as a misaligned die (MAD) on the Reverse. The Obverse looks normal.. Is It is not off enough to have any premium.

There is no Doubling on your coin.

Also please do not hold coins in your hand. Lay it on a flat surface to shoot your photos. If that was a valuable coin, your fingerprints would greatly reduce the value.

 

Hey there. I finally got my microscope and scales in yesterday!! Yay, me! I just am struggling with the whole Doubled Die thing. I have read about it and listened to what I have been told, but I think I see it everywhere and I know that is not possible. I was even pretty confident about a couple of rpms that I thought I'd seen, but now not so much. I mean, it looks like they could be there, but then again, it looks like they may not. 

I am very discouraged at this moment (I will get over it soon), and am not giving up by any means. Are there any tips you can give me? 

And, listen to this one... I recall probably idk 30 years ago, maybe more, maybe less, I was going to get a drink out of a vending machine. I pulled out a coin and it was different on each side. I cannot remember what it was exactly, but I do remember thinking to myself, "Well, would it give me credit for this side or the other?" You know, I think I threw it away, believing that it was no good. I sure wish I'd kept that one! 

#lessonslearned

 

And, BTW, I have got the MAD down pat 😊

Edited February 24, 2021 by Sharann
Something else to say

[JKK]

A doubled die happens when the die is created, and the best way to assess it is to look at letters and numbers. There will be two impressions of them, closer or farther apart depending on the direction and distance of the shift that occurred, but the tops of both will have similar looks.

With mechanical doubling, which includes die deterioration doubling, the second images will not have similar tops to the first. They will look like shelves or steps leading up to the higher, primary impressions. If you look up pics of legit 1972 and 1955 Linc DDs, you will see what the real thing looks like when it is very pronounced. You'll notice those aren't shelfy or steppy.

Another important thing: real DDs are so very, very rare that your bias should be to consider it mechanical until proven otherwise. The first step there is to research to see if such a DD even exists. If there is no 1971-D doubled die known to exist, and you think you might have one, the standard of proof is problematic. Not impossible, but problematic. Examples of most true DDs have already been discovered and catalogued. It's like going over the ground on Cape Cod with a metal detector: it's not absolutely impossible to find an original Puritan implement or coin--it's just far, far more likely that the real ones have mostly been found, and that the beep on your detector means a beer can. So in that case, you'd start by assuming it was a beer can, and then if proven something else, you'd go from there.

[RWB]

1 hour ago, Sharann said:

Hey there. I finally got my microscope and scales in yesterday!! Yay, me! I just am struggling with the whole Doubled Die thing. I have read about it and listened to what I have been told, but I think I see it everywhere and I know that is not possible. I was even pretty confident about a couple of rpms that I thought I'd seen, but now not so much. I mean, it looks like they could be there, but then again, it looks like they may not. 

I am very discouraged at this moment (I will get over it soon), and am not giving up by any means. Are there any tips you can give me? 

And, listen to this one... I recall probably idk 30 years ago, maybe more, maybe less, I was going to get a drink out of a vending machine. I pulled out a coin and it was different on each side. I cannot remember what it was exactly, but I do remember thinking to myself, "Well, would it give me credit for this side or the other?" You know, I think I threw it away, believing that it was no good. I sure wish I'd kept that one! 

#lessonslearned

 

And, BTW, I have got the MAD down pat 😊

Try this link: http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2647

[Sharann]

11 minutes ago, RWB said:

Try this link: http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2647

 

57 minutes ago, JKK said:

A doubled die happens when the die is created, and the best way to assess it is to look at letters and numbers. There will be two impressions of them, closer or farther apart depending on the direction and distance of the shift that occurred, but the tops of both will have similar looks.

With mechanical doubling, which includes die deterioration doubling, the second images will not have similar tops to the first. They will look like shelves or steps leading up to the higher, primary impressions. If you look up pics of legit 1972 and 1955 Linc DDs, you will see what the real thing looks like when it is very pronounced. You'll notice those aren't shelfy or steppy.

Another important thing: real DDs are so very, very rare that your bias should be to consider it mechanical until proven otherwise. The first step there is to research to see if such a DD even exists. If there is no 1971-D doubled die known to exist, and you think you might have one, the standard of proof is problematic. Not impossible, but problematic. Examples of most true DDs have already been discovered and catalogued. It's like going over the ground on Cape Cod with a metal detector: it's not absolutely impossible to find an original Puritan implement or coin--it's just far, far more likely that the real ones have mostly been found, and that the beep on your detector means a beer can. So in that case, you'd start by assuming it was a beer can, and then if proven something else, you'd go from there.

You see, I think this is where I am.. It is circled in this entry I read on the link you sent. 

I even made one out of a potato, lol, and used it with play-doh... Just to make sure I understand what it is. (A little redneck engineering there, folks) 

I had a pretty good understanding, or so I thought I did until I looked on Coppercoins at some of the varieties and then I got totally confused. Now, it is hard to "unsee" and clear all that outta my muddled brain. Maybe I should just not look at it for a day or so. And just clean all these coins with my bare hands for something else to do... LOL, you know I am kidding, I hope. I'm sorry 😅I just had to throw that in to keep y'all on your toes. 

[Sharann]

40 minutes ago, RWB said:

Try this link: http://www.vamworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2647

This article within this link is amazing. I did, however, stop at the Longacre explanation because I figure I ought to learn one thing at a time (or at least try to) . Thank you😊

[RWB]

2 hours ago, Sharann said:

This article within this link is amazing. I did, however, stop at the Longacre explanation because I figure I ought to learn one thing at a time (or at least try to) . Thank you😊

Glad you found this of use.

You will not see "Longacre doubling" on any modern coin. It is are artifact of the letter and logo punches used to prepare master dies and NOT from the manufacture of working dies.

(Another new icon photo -- you're going to confuse us!)

Edited February 24, 2021 by RWB

[RWB]

3 hours ago, Sharann said:

I even made one out of a potato, lol, and used it with play-doh... Just to make sure I understand what it is. (A little redneck engineering there, folks) 

Very practical. Idaho potatoes make better dies than reds or some others because of the starch.... Just scrape off the Play-Doh before baking.

[GoldFinger1969]

4 hours ago, Sharann said:

This article within this link is amazing. I did, however, stop at the Longacre explanation because I figure I ought to learn one thing at a time (or at least try to) . Thank you😊

There may be other threads here at NGC in the archives on Double Dies.   Give them a look.   If not, check out other forums like CT.