Fractional ownership... of baseball cards... ? This can't be good. 0

[World Colonial]

On 9/1/2022 at 2:58 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think that is true of LOTS of threads here that many of us don't read.  This thread is no different.

OTOH, it does analyze the intersection of low-interest money, hobbies vs. investments, NFTs and baseball cards vs. coins, and other variables that affect our little niche.

The subject covered by the title of this thread is a complete farce, but apparently that escapes some people.  Not the OP for starting it, but that this concept even exists and is considered viable.  It's utterly absurd but due to recent experience is considered "normal".  

More generally, much of the discussion on this type of coin forum is about labels on plastic holders and stickers, not actually about the coin since there isn't a dime's worth of practical difference much of the time from a collecting standpoint.  But then, I suppose that makes total sense too.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:34 AM, World Colonial said:

The subject covered by the title of this thread is a complete farce, but apparently that escapes some people.  Not the OP for starting it, but that this concept even exists and is considered viable.  It's utterly absurd but due to recent experience is considered "normal".  

I just find it interesting that all the bball cards bought in bulk -- the moderns -- from about 1988-1994 are STILL underwater as I understand it.  I remember my young cousins stockpiling them in their closets.

The rare stuff has made a spectacular comeback.  The stuff made during the bubble has not.

Might be a good lesson there for coins. 

Edited September 1, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:02 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I just find it interesting that all the bball cards bought in bulk -- the moderns -- from about 1988-1994 are STILL underwater as I understand it.  I remember my young cousins stockpiling them in their closets.

The rare stuff has made a spectacular comeback.  The stuff made during the bubble has not.

Might be a good lesson there for coins. 

I understand your point but the first (not only) reason for the outcome you described is that buying supposed collectibles in bulk has nothing to do with collecting, whether for coins or something else.

That's the same principle with this fractional ownership.  It's not actual collecting because it serves no recreational purpose.  It also has no economic usefulness which is why it's just another form of speculation and not investment.

In different threads here and on the PCGS forum, I have also provided my explanation for the current US collecting culture since it makes a lot more sense than the consensus perception.  It's very unpopular because it's contrary to the preferences of practically anyone with a "meaningful" financial commitment in their collection.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/1/2022 at 11:27 AM, World Colonial said:

I understand your point but the first (not only) reason for the outcome you described is that buying supposed collectibles in bulk has nothing to do with collecting, whether for coins or something else. That's the same principle with this fractional ownership.  It's not actual collecting because it serves no recreational purpose.  It also has no economic usefulness which is why it's just another form of speculation and not investment.  In different threads here and on the PCGS forum, I have also provided my explanation for the current US collecting culture since it makes a lot more sense than the consensus perception.  It's very unpopular because it's contrary to the preferences of practically anyone with a "meaningful" financial commitment in their collection.

No argument, WC....but that 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle -- and I am fully willing to say it is an outlier -- went from $50,000 in 1991 to $12.6 MM today.

That's 20% a year for 31 years !! 

Now, let's see what happens to all those NBA and MLB collectibles, cards, NFTs, etc. that went from a few hundred or few thousand dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars practically overnight.

I think the speculative element in cards and collectibles can sustain price rises for authentically rare cards like the 1952 Mickey Mantle and some others, but NOT for hundreds or thousands of various cards.

[zadok]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

No argument, WC....but that 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle -- and I am fully willing to say it is an outlier -- went from $50,000 in 1991 to $12.6 MM today.

That's 20% a year for 31 years !! 

Now, let's see what happens to all those NBA and MLB collectibles, cards, NFTs, etc. that went from a few hundred or few thousand dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars practically overnight.

I think the speculative element in cards and collectibles can sustain price rises for authentically rare cards like the 1952 Mickey Mantle and some others, but NOT for hundreds or thousands of various cards.

...diff to quantify that " oh i think i missed the boat need to buy before im totally left behind" mentality regardless if ur common sense tells u its stupid...in baseball cards, stocks, coins, nfts or quack medicines...happens everyday n there r hundreds, thousands of vultures out there just waiting for that sucker, its even promoted in plain sight...not sure u can accurately factor that in when trying to project expected curves on collectibles...coins r especially fertile ground when u see the auction results we have been seeing the past decade or so....

[World Colonial]

On 9/2/2022 at 2:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

No argument, WC....but that 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle -- and I am fully willing to say it is an outlier -- went from $50,000 in 1991 to $12.6 MM today.

That's 20% a year for 31 years !! 

Now, let's see what happens to all those NBA and MLB collectibles, cards, NFTs, etc. that went from a few hundred or few thousand dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars practically overnight.

I've already given my opinion on this one.

On 9/2/2022 at 2:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think the speculative element in cards and collectibles can sustain price rises for authentically rare cards like the 1952 Mickey Mantle and some others, but NOT for hundreds or thousands of various cards.

From what I know, this card isn't actually rare, not even close. I don't have access to the TPG population data directly but recall it's included in Heritage auction listings (somewhat at least) which I have reviewed on occasion.

It's "rare" compared to the more recent (post late 80's) really mass produced stuff but from the Heritage listings, a lot more common versus coins that are usually considered scarce or rare.  It's even more common versus actually significant cultural objects, like Russian Imperial Faberge Easter Eggs which are each unique, some of which are presumably still worth less than $12.6MM now.

The distinction is the cultural element which baseball (or any other major sport) has to a much greater extent than coin collecting.  It's a simple as this because otherwise, no actual collector (which must include some of these buyers) would ever pay anywhere near these prices, even if they are partly buying it for financial reasons.

It also depends how far out you are looking but that's a more complicated discussion.  My belief is that the cultural appeal both for baseball and the players illustrated on these classic cards has either peaked or will in the relatively near future.  (Depends upon the player.)  So, even if I didn't think this concept (fractional ownership) is totally stupid for any collectible (which I do), I'd still never be a buyer at anything close to recent prices especially for a long-term hold.

Edited September 2, 2022 by World Colonial

[zadok]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:04 AM, World Colonial said:

I've already given my opinion on this one.

From what I know, this card isn't actually rare, not even close. I don't have access to the TPG population data directly but recall it's included in Heritage auction listings (somewhat at least) which I have reviewed on occasion.

It's "rare" compared to the more recent (post late 80's) really mass produced stuff but from the Heritage listings, a lot more common versus coins that are usually considered scarce or rare.  It's even more common versus actually significant cultural objects, like Russian Imperial Faberge Easter Eggs which are each unique, some of which are presumably still worth less than $12.6MM now.

The distinction is the cultural element which baseball (or any other major sport) has to a much greater extent than coin collecting.  It's a simple as this because otherwise, no actual collector (which must include some of these buyers) would ever pay anywhere near these prices, even if they are partly buying it for financial reasons.

It also depends how far out you are looking but that's a more complicated discussion.  My belief is that the cultural appeal both for baseball and the players illustrated on these classic cards has either peaked or will in the relatively near future.  (Depends upon the player.)  So, even if I didn't think this concept (fractional ownership) is totally stupid for any collectible (which I do), I'd still never be a buyer at anything close to recent prices especially for a long-term hold.

...agree no collector would pay that much for any baseball card...these collectibles at these prices almost certainly r going to speculators or consortiums...in reality i seriously doubt many baseball collectors r trying to assemble complete sets of baseball cards anymore, more of assembling groupings of potential investment cards i.e. rookie cards or HOF cards...could be wrong....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:04 AM, World Colonial said:

From what I know, this card isn't actually rare, not even close.

It's the condition.  The MM 1952 sold was graded 9.5 out of 10.  There are supposedly three 10 cards out there that would command a premium but apparently the sellers have no interest in selling and are wealthy enough for that to not be considered a bluff or a selling strategy.

No more "hoards" either, as the 9.5 MM was found in an attic in Massachusetts in 1985.    A real fluke.

Edited September 4, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 9/2/2022 at 9:07 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's the condition.  The MM 1952 sold was graded 9.5 out of 10.  There are supposedly three 10 cards out there that would command a premium but apparently the sellers have no interest in selling and are wealthy enough for that to not be considered a bluff or a selling strategy.

No more "hoards" either, as the 9.5 MM was found in an attic in Massachusetts about 1990.    A real fluke.

I know. It's another fake rarity as with other graded collectibles.  More marketing and financialization. 

If you look at one of the older Heritage listings of this card (who also sold this one) in slightly lower grade, anyone can see what I am talking about.  The card isn't rare until above an "8" (with 35 though presumably some duplicates) where this one is still worth a boatload of money.  That's for PSA only.

I agree with zadok's post above mine.  That was part of my prior point.  I grew up an avid baseball fan, knowing about all the classic era hall of famers from my old Baseball Encyclopedia, books, and the APBA tabletop game.

How many people really care about that at all, especially to pay big money for a card for what it actually is, as opposed to speculation? 

The Yankees are somewhat different (for now) but most (probably practically all) of these players are destined to be forgotten by the predominantly modern casual fan base who mostly know or care nothing about what I am telling you.

[World Colonial]

On 9/2/2022 at 1:28 PM, zadok said:

...agree no collector would pay that much for any baseball card...these collectibles at these prices almost certainly r going to speculators or consortiums...in reality i seriously doubt many baseball collectors r trying to assemble complete sets of baseball cards anymore, more of assembling groupings of potential investment cards i.e. rookie cards or HOF cards...could be wrong....

I infer (that's all it is) that there is a hard core following of overwhelmingly mostly older baseball fans who actually like this stuff.  They grew up both watching (like I did) and maybe buying Topps cards (which I did not).  But it's still speculation (not collecting) accounting for the prices, as there isn't a dimes worth of practical difference of near equivalent grade baseball cards just as there isn't on coins.

I also infer a noticeable gap between the best known players from the teams with the hardest core followings + a few players from less popular teams and everyone else.  The Yankees are definitely one with a great tradition.  But even accepting any current rationalization (which of course I do not), I don't see that this translates to baseball cards generally or HOF players who are actually obscure now.

[GoldFinger1969]

I might want to spend speculative $$$ on a rare baseball card as opposed to Bitcoin or cryptos ! 

Edited September 4, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 9/4/2022 at 1:17 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I might want to spend speculative $$$ on a rare baseball card as opposed to Bitcoin or cryptos ! 

Which ones are actually rare, aside from printing errors?  Are any for actually prominent players especially from one of the teams with a hard core following?  Or someone hardly anyone remembers other than from the card?

I ask because presumably the best known card by far (Honus Wagner T-206) purportedly has 50-60 known though the highest graded is or seems to be an "8".

This number isn't even close to actually rare, but the distinction is that the card is the equivalent (for a baseball card) of any "famous" coin and probably better known.  I'm also assuming it was worth more than this 9.5 Mantle card back in 1991 ($50K) before everything became really inflated during the mania financial era.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/4/2022 at 11:20 AM, World Colonial said:

Which ones are actually rare, aside from printing errors?  Are any for actually prominent players especially from one of the teams with a hard core following?  Or someone hardly anyone remembers other than from the card?  I ask because presumably the best known card by far (Honus Wagner T-206) purportedly has 50-60 known though the highest graded is or seems to be an "8".  This number isn't even close to actually rare, but the distinction is that the card is the equivalent (for a baseball card) of any "famous" coin and probably better known.  I'm also assuming it was worth more than this 9.5 Mantle card back in 1991 ($50K) before everything became really inflated during the mania financial era.  

As with coins, you have to go UP in quality to separate price/value.  Stars from the 1950's and 1960's are popular:  Sandy Koufax, Ernie Banks, Roberto Clemente, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan.  For some reason, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron aren't -- maybe because they didn't have the number of die-hard followers once their teams moved from NYC and Milwaukee, respectively.  Ditto Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams cards -- not enough, not enough in mint condition, not enough cards covering most of their early/best years.  Those cards were never the "hot" cards at shows or in sales auctions even though the players were among the best ever.

When I was collecting and going to card shows, the Nolan Ryan Rookie card (with fellow Met Jerry Koosman) was the #2 card behind the Mickey Mantles from Tops and Bowman.  No doubt because of the twin records for K's and No-Hitters.

I think the Honus Wagner would be more sought-after in all grades IF more collectors knew who he was and/or had seen him play.  Wagner, Nap Lajoie, Christy Matthewson, Walter Johnson, even Babe Ruth -- nobody saw them play when cards got popular (well, very few if any)....AND....there weren't enough cards in sequence to make their cards attractive (i.e., Rookie card, 2nd Year Card, 3rd Year Card, etc.).  You had very few of their cards survive in Mint Condition and not from historic years (i.e. Babe Ruth in 1927 when he hit 60 HR).

I grew up reading about these players from 1900 - 1960 when I was a kid flipping and collecting cards in the 1970's.  I don't think the younger generation like my young cousins (b. 1976) did.  They knew who Ruth was, but if not for the T-206, they'd never know who Honus Wagner was...or Pie Traynor....Walter Johnson....Christy Matthewson.    You might as well talk about players from the 1880's when the rules for baseball weren't like today.  Even players from the 1930's (i.e., Dizzy Dean) and beyond -- no knowledge and not enough cards.  

Edited September 4, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

As with coins, you have to go UP in quality to separate price/value. 

Yes, I know but this isn't a real rarity.  It's another contrivance.  This is what I don't believe is going to last any more than with coins, not at anywhere near current price spreads.  It's more financialization and marketing, not actual collecting.

On 9/4/2022 at 2:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Stars from the 1950's and 1960's are popular:  Sandy Koufax, Ernie Banks, Roberto Clemente, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan.  For some reason, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron aren't -- maybe because they didn't have the number of die-hard followers once their teams moved from NYC and Milwaukee, respectively. 

Agree with your general sentiments which I think are a negative for this supposed "asset".  Yankees, Cardinals, Cubs, Red Sox, and maybe Mets have what I would describe as largest "hard core" fan bases due to cultural reasons and population.  The rest, a lot less to virtually none.

On 9/4/2022 at 2:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I grew up reading about these players from 1900 - 1960 when I was a kid flipping and collecting cards in the 1970's.  I don't think the younger generation like my young cousins (b. 1976) did.  They knew who Ruth was, but if not for the T-206, they'd never know who Honus Wagner was...or Pie Traynor....Walter Johnson....Christy Matthewson.    You might as well talk about players from the 1880's when the rules for baseball weren't like today.  Even players from the 1930's (i.e., Dizzy Dean) and beyond -- no knowledge and not enough cards.  

I extracted this part of your post, but my reply is to all of the rest.  Yes, I agree. 

This was exactly my point in my prior post.  I know all those players you named, from the sources I listed.  There is a web page I looked at this morning (maybe dated now) listing the 50 most valuable baseball cards.  I recall all the players but two whose cards are printing errors.  Yes, even Andy Pafko (50's Yankees) who I'd guess over 99% of non-Yankee fans don't know or have a reason to care.

This is the point.  It's evident there is limited to virtually no interest in most of these "classic era" (mostly pre-70's) players even now.  So, what's going to happen years later?  Some of them are still alive but most from when I started watching (1977) are already dead.

As an "investment" asset, the current price level isn't sustainable without bubble level financial conditions when the (supposed) interest is contingent on a tiny fraction of players with somewhat scarce cards with the balance being predominantly common as dirt modern mass produced.

Fractional ownership isn't going to change the long-term outcome when there is no depth of interest.  It's just another gimmick.

[Henri Charriere]

[The topic, notwithstanding, I infer this is not a good time to disclose I do not invest in so much as a single U.S. Savings Bond (A, E I O, U, whatever) preferring to park my money in U.S.P.S. money orders. You read that right!  I dismiss any notion that I am "losing" money. I subscribe to the thought that "NOT spending money, is SAVING MONEY."  I do not see the logic of squandering money elsewhere on frivolous things and then saying to me: "Why do you maintain a balance of $1,000. in your checking account?" Or, you ought to be doing this or that with it, e.g., putting that money "to work." Balderdash! For what? It's existence in no way crimps my bare-to-the-bones lifestyle of which I have no complaint and have become more than accustomed to. Fractional or whole, you will all come to the realization that you can't take it with you. Much of what we all do are feel-good rationalizations, or surrogates, for the real thing, whatever that may be. In the end, it all comes to naught. If I leave my heirs anything, it's simply out of common courtesy, whether they deserve it or not.

Aside: There was a thoroughly engrossing article I did not have the good sense to hold onto whose premise was, You think you have it bad, what about the super-rich? It went on in excruciating depth the lengths to which they must go to become members of the best clubs, live in the best houses in the best neighborhoods, prepare their children to be accepted to the best pre-nurseries, private schools and top universities. Drive the right cars, wear the right clothes, patronize the right restaurants, become members of the right sports clubs, beach clubs, churches, exclusive retreats, etc. The pursuit of never-ending, unattainable, constantly-changing standards in pursuit of the best, the finest: the unique. I enjoy the ultimate luxury few have: I-DON'T-CARE; I-COULDN'T-CARE-LESS; I-DON'T-HAVE-TO-DO-ANYTHING!  My apologies to the OP. I should have posted this on the O-F-F  T-O-P-IC thread, which one member preciently observed, makes it no more or less, off-topic.]          

Enjoy the holiday, gentlemen!  🐓 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

For the record, I don't consider baseball cards "investments" but collectibles like art.  Or Hummels. 

[zadok]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:39 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

For the record, I don't consider baseball cards "investments" but collectibles like art.  Or Hummels. 

...just curious...the big bucks mantle rookie card, how do u view it then?...a high priced collectible? or a speculative investment?....

[VKurtB]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:39 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

For the record, I don't consider baseball cards "investments" but collectibles like art.  Or Hummels. 

Beanie Babies?

[World Colonial]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:39 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

For the record, I don't consider baseball cards "investments" but collectibles like art.  Or Hummels. 

The accurate analogy is a print, not the original work.  No actually significant artwork is mass produced, like a sports card.  Prints sell for immaterial fractions compared to any expensive sports card.

Art is also subjective, but if there are any exceptions, maybe a Stradivarius violin might quality.  There is more than one of those.  Likewise for the Declaration of Independence.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:09 PM, zadok said:

...just curious...the big bucks mantle rookie card, how do u view it then?...a high priced collectible? or a speculative investment?....

Collectible....tangible asset....like art.  Nobody who can legitimately afford a 1952 MM needs it to make money as an investment because they probably (certainly) have 8 or 9 or 10 figures in liquid financial assets. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[zadok]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:57 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Collectible....tangible asset....like art.  Nobody who can legitimately afford a 1952 MM needs it to make money as an investment because they probably (certainly) have 8 or 9 or 10 figures in liquid financial assets. 

...difficult to display on ur wall, guess needs a really big frame....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/6/2022 at 9:23 AM, zadok said:

...difficult to display on ur wall, guess needs a really big frame....

Baseball cards are held in plastic holders or lucite slabs.  They were being encapsulated years before coins...it's the grading that has just recently taken off.

[zadok]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Baseball cards are held in plastic holders or lucite slabs.  They were being encapsulated years before coins...it's the grading that has just recently taken off.

...i am aware...was just saying as a work of art u dont get much wall display on a baseball card....

[GoldFinger1969]

Jeff Garrett has written several pieces in 2021 and 2022 saying that our hobby has definitely seen an influx of participants and/or $$$ chasing the same number of coins (hence higher prices):

https://rarecoingallery.com/articles-by-jeff-garrett/the-rare-coin-market-is-hot-heres-how-you-can-make-it-work-for-you/

[GoldFinger1969]

The UP AND DOWN WALL STREET column in this week's BARRON'S noted that the Aaron Judge 62nd Home Run Ball went at auction for $1.5 MM this past week -- down from 50% from what was offered (presumably a serious offer) by a private deal right after the home run was hit in early-October ($3 MM).

A Michael Jordan rookie card is under $200,000 down from $720,000 back in 2021.  NFTs aren't in the news anymore, neither are tokens, and crypto is for all the wrong reasons. 

This is a real good article -- with a link within to the inflation of asset prices in other tangible stuff -- which describes a bit of what happened to coins and currency but more so with collectibles, sports cards, NFTs, art, etc.  We basically shut down the economy, gave people free $$$, and they spent it on all that stuff plus PCs, iPhones, Amazon, etc....since they didn't have to go to work and couldn't go out, eat out, do movies or theater, etc.

https://allvintagecards.com/has-jordan-fleer-rookie-hit-rock-bottom/#:~:text=And%2C since that peak in,latest pricing at around %248%2C000.

Looking at the price bubble in Michael Jordan 10/9/8 cards -- dragged up by the 10's, free $$$, stay-at-homes, and easy money in RobinHood and crypto -- it's no wonder that the card for a guy who retired over 20 years ago got so hot.  When I was collecting in the 1980's and 1990's....aside from Mickey Mantle, nobody cared about guys who retired 20 years earlier in MLB or the NBA.  

What's this mean for coins ?  I think the fact that coins rose so much LESS and gold/silver also just moved maybe 20% during Covid bodes well going forward.  We didn't have a huge rise (like 1979 or 1989) so we don't have to fall much (and haven't) and won't need to tread water for a decade to burn off the excess.

The wind was at the back of all these frauds:  sports cards, NFTs, crypto.  As Warren Buffet says, when the tide goes out, we see who's swimming naked.  And it 'aint a bunch of buxom beauties, it's some real worn-out junk.  Now that you can get 4% in a money market fund and more going out a bit longer without ANY RISK, let's see how these things do now that borrowing margin costs money....the price of eating has gone up...gas is up....and you actually have to go to work instead of banging on a keyboard when government and/or company $$$ are sent into your checking account. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

Still a long way to fall IMO, 8k for a PSA 8 Jordan rookie card is still way overpriced. 

The NBA went all in with NFT's, Top Shots I think they are called, don't here much about those anymore either.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[pigeonman333rd]

Anybody remember these guys from their college days. All I know is mom waited in line at KB toys to buy the college cards for us because we watched College basketball. The truth is their is only one Mike and I don't have his rookie card.

[pigeonman333rd]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:49 PM, World Colonial said:

The accurate analogy is a print, not the original work.  No actually significant artwork is mass produced, like a sports card.  Prints sell for immaterial fractions compared to any expensive sports card.

Art is also subjective, but if there are any exceptions, maybe a Stradivarius violin might quality.  There is more than one of those.  Likewise for the Declaration of Independence.

I would rather have a Colling Birds Eye Mandolin!

[pigeonman333rd]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:05 AM, pigeonman333rd said:

I would rather have a Colling Birds Eye Mandolin!

 

On 12/25/2022 at 2:05 AM, pigeonman333rd said:

I would rather have a Colling Birds Eye Mandolin!

The problem with this set of cards most of the good ones I saved my brother sold most of the All Stars years ago. We never had a Micheal Jordan Rookie card though. I got to keep the Admiral but the Shaquille O'Neal College cards he sold all those years ago to his best friend. People buying cars never learn. I bought my first car with $400.00 it was used but ran good. His first car he paid thousands for. Never pay full price for a car unless you plan to collect them! I would love to collect cars some day a 1963 split window coupe corvette or a 1980 automatic, or a 1968 Camaro. I don't like new cars they are to ugly. He left me all his baseball cards though but I just keep them in their cases I never got into base ball Much I do like the Babe Ruth book marker though it's around here somewhere I got it with my April 1944 numismatist magazine on flying eagles I keep it in a case because it looks very old but is a book marker I believe like a replica with a signature on the back of it the funny thing is I can't tell who wrote their name on it it doesn't look like a B in Babe Ruths name it looks like a cursive R like as in Rane. It's certainly not a baseball card I've never seen one that small like a business card. I got to find that sucker because I lost it when I was looking for my 1912-s cent and my 1927 popular mechanics birthday penny some time last week. If I wasn't so sick I would look for all of them they are in the living room but it's so full of stuff I can't find anything. I was thrilled when I found it in the pages because it had Babe Ruths Image on it and when I was in Little league and we had cards made I didn't know what to say when they asked me who my favorite base ball player was so I said Babe Ruth. I had no idea he wasn't still alive or that he played for the Boston Red Sox which was my favorite team because my ex-brother in Law liked the Red Sox. I always thought Babe Ruth was a Yankee from what my friend Dustin told me when I was a kid but not according to the book marker. Have you found any old cards lately or do you collect sports stuff? I still keep my Baseball card from little league but mom has them stashed away with the family photo albums. I used to collect Topps basketball cards but base ball is just not my sport I do have an Epiphone mandolin and dream of owning a Colling some day. I would strum it but my parents always say enough. It said certified by Forty and at the time I was in NMCB40 and just had to have it so I strum it as fast as I can and practice notes from you tube but I stopped because my parents asked me to stop playing it because it annoys them but I have never heard a more beautiful sounding mandolin quite like a Colling a Birds Eye I believe it was called by the guy who had it. I do remember asking If I could try it but I remember him saying it was a $14,000 piece of wood are you sure you can handle it and that's when I got shy and said no way! I break strings and the board on the base of mine a few times but I would have hated to have broken anything on that instrument.    

[World Colonial]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:02 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

A Michael Jordan rookie card is under $200,000 down from $720,000 back in 2021.  NFTs aren't in the news anymore, neither are tokens, and crypto is for all the wrong reasons. 

So, now it's still over 100X overpriced even after a 70%+ decline.  Last I read, 316 PSA-10 with probably many, many more.

On 12/25/2022 at 2:02 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Looking at the price bubble in Michael Jordan 10/9/8 cards -- dragged up by the 10's, free $$$, stay-at-homes, and easy money in RobinHood and crypto -- it's no wonder that the card for a guy who retired over 20 years ago got so hot.  

I think ESPN airing his games when the NBA wasn't playing had something or a lot to do with it.

On 12/25/2022 at 2:02 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

When I was collecting in the 1980's and 1990's....aside from Mickey Mantle, nobody cared about guys who retired 20 years earlier in MLB or the NBA.  

That's probably because they weren't "hard core" fans and may not have been much of a fan at all.  In the past, baseball's history was an asset which distinguished it from the other major team sports.  All of the sports have changed, but at least baseball still resembles the game it used to be. Different style of the game and even different rules for the others.

It's debatable how many of the "old time" baseball players would be good enough to play now.  However, go back even a few decades from 1977 when I started watching and not even one NFL player would have a moonshots chance in you know what of making any team.  NBA maybe somewhat better but I doubt it.  I don't think most of the NFL players from the late 70's could play their own positions now or recently.  Either too slow or too small.

I read baseball history as a young fan.  I tried reading NFL but had no interest.  Never was interested in the others.