Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I am disappointed with the NGC grading on an 1890-CC VAM-4 Tail Bar and an 1895-O. Both received grades of VF Cleaned. However, ever other Morgan from this same sixty year old roll received NGC grades of MS61-MS64. I just find this very curious. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 You will have to show pictures before anyone can comment. Hard to say if the grading is justified or not without seeing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Will do so once I physically get them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Cadet67 said: Will do so once I physically get them back. For "problem coins", they don't even do the low res online photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just find it really ironic that the two most valuable coins in the roll were judged to have been cleaned when ALL the other Morgans were graded as MS. Sure, I know it's possible, but since these rolls came from the estate of a silver hoarder, who had 4 safes plus a house full of silver items and coins, I find it hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 54 minutes ago, Cadet67 said: Just find it really ironic that the two most valuable coins in the roll were judged to have been cleaned when ALL the other Morgans were graded as MS. Sure, I know it's possible, but since these rolls came from the estate of a silver hoarder, who had 4 safes plus a house full of silver items and coins, I find it hard to believe. Do you find this hard to believe? Perhaps they had much more junior graders handle the more mundane coins, but assigned the really scarce ones to senior graders who are more persnickety. Keep in mind, in the case of very rare pieces, each new one certified affects the market for all the others as well. This also applies to "top pop" coins. It's hard to set a new "top pop", and when it happens, the order seems to take longer coming back, and they spent longer in "Grading/Quality Control". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, VKurtB said: Do you find this hard to believe? Perhaps they had much more junior graders handle the more mundane coins, but assigned the really scarce ones to senior graders who are more persnickety. Keep in mind, in the case of very rare pieces, each new one certified affects the market for all the others as well. This also applies to "top pop" coins. It's hard to set a new "top pop", and when it happens, the order seems to take longer coming back, and they spent longer in "Grading/Quality Control". Excellent post! You are right on. I paid for the 2 day turn around Express service, but it has taken 6 work days for them to post the grading results. Thank you for the insight it was very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 In addition, cleaning coins was actually acceptable 60 + years ago. The person who owned the coins, or the dealer who sold them, could have decided to make his more valuable coins more attractive by "shining them up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 I'm not saying it's impossible to get a fresh really rare coin certified straight graded or set a new "top pop", but they aren't going to nonchalant it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Thank you all for the comments. Very informative and helpful. However, I do admit that I would love to have both coins graded by another agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Cadet67 said: Thank you all for the comments. Very informative and helpful. However, I do admit that I would love to have both coins graded by another agency. Cadet67: Once I disagreed with what our host graded two CC Trade Dollars so I cracked them out and sent them to PCGS. There's also the third place runner up ANACS.or ICG. Hope things turn out better for you and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 57 minutes ago, Alex in PA. said: Cadet67: Once I disagreed with what our host graded two CC Trade Dollars so I cracked them out and sent them to PCGS. There's also the third place runner up ANACS.or ICG. Hope things turn out better for you and good luck. Curious, how did you make out with the PCGS grading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Preservation/state of wear is one thing. Cleaning or other abuse is a separate critter that might or might not affect the coin's appearance and render it "ungradeable." Insider 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbbpll Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I'm confused. Why would you think that two coins in a roll couldn't be VF Cleaned just because the rest of the coins graded 61-64? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.cutler Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Someone had to have put the roll together, and they certainly could have put a couple lower grade coins in. Will be waiting for pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 12 hours ago, Cadet67 said: Curious, how did you make out with the PCGS grading? NGC = VF Details Cleaned. Both. PCGS VF Details Cleaned. Both. But that was okay Cadet67. It was part of the learning process, I was very angry until Insider, who posts on this forum, helped me understand. The good folks here will help you out. Good luck.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 9 hours ago, kbbpll said: I'm confused. Why would you think that two coins in a roll couldn't be VF Cleaned just because the rest of the coins graded 61-64? No need to be confused. I fully realized that not every coin in the roll would necessarily be graded MS, but just found it ironic that the two most valuable ones were graded the lowest and detailed. My original post was motivated by disappointment NOT disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 It isn't really ironic at all. As a loose, general rule-of-thumb, the more valuable a coin is, the more likely it is to have been cleaned at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 Just got the graded coins back & I promised to postphotoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.cutler Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I would have to say I agree with the VF details. The cleaning is pretty visible on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex in PA. Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I agree. Especially that 95 O. He should have seen that one coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 Yes, I learned a good lesson. Although, in my defense, the roll photos were not as clear as the ones I have just posted. Thanks for the feedback it is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Definitely cleaned. NGC got them right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 On 8/19/2020 at 11:22 AM, Cadet67 said: I am disappointed with the NGC grading on an 1890-CC VAM-4 Tail Bar and an 1895-O. Both received grades of VF Cleaned. However, ever other Morgan from this same sixty year old roll received NGC grades of MS61-MS64. I just find this very curious. Thoughts? Trust the results but verify. The professionals at the grading service (even the young rookies) are there for a reason. One radio icon explains it this way. Tens of thousands of folks play football yet a very small percent are good enough to be pros. On 8/19/2020 at 3:58 PM, VKurtB said: Do you find this hard to believe? Perhaps they had much more junior graders handle the more mundane coins, but assigned the really scarce ones to senior graders who are more persnickety. Keep in mind, in the case of very rare pieces, each new one certified affects the market for all the others as well. This also applies to "top pop" coins. It's hard to set a new "top pop", and when it happens, the order seems to take longer coming back, and they spent longer in "Grading/Quality Control". The key word here is "Perhaps" as used in this sentence: Perhaps this poster has no idea what goes on at NGC or any other TPGS for that matter. Always remember that much of what you read on chat forms is: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrinz Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Owning one of each coin - I agree with BOTH grades and outcomes. Still desirable pieces even in Details slabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadet67 Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 Thank you all for taking the time to share your opinions & to educate me on the matter. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
