Could the ANA file Chapter 11 bankruptcy? 0

[RWB]

The ANA seems to be in a very difficult financial situation. Any speculative thoughts - or solutions - out there?

[World Colonial]

It seems to me that would be very premature.  Don't they have a substantial collection from prior donations which can be sold?

On the PCGS forum, a contributor who works for the ANS mentioned that this organization might be looking to sell duplicates.  If I understood correctly, don't know the reason but a revenue shortfall is a likely contributing factor though I doubt they are in dire financial straits.

[gmarguli]

A difficult financial situation? I don't understand how. It's not like they approved a budget where they have a net income of negative $1.4 million, which is 35% of their total income. 

I see that they spend almost $2 million on salaries and another half million on employee benefits. How many people does the ANA employ? 

Is there a list of all the coins and books they have? If they have any dup coins, those should be sold, not hoarded. 

I'd feel more inclined to donate to the ANA if I felt it was more transparent of an organization.

[VKurtB]

49 minutes ago, World Colonial said:

It seems to me that would be very premature.  Don't they have a substantial collection from prior donations which can be sold?

On the PCGS forum, a contributor who works for the ANS mentioned that this organization might be looking to sell duplicates.  If I understood correctly, don't know the reason but a revenue shortfall is a likely contributing factor though I doubt they are in dire financial straits.

The ANS and the ANA are two different organizations. The ANS is in New York. The ANA is in Colorado Springs.

[VKurtB]

46 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

A difficult financial situation? I don't understand how. It's not like they approved a budget where they have a net income of negative $1.4 million, which is 35% of their total income. 

I see that they spend almost $2 million on salaries and another half million on employee benefits. How many people does the ANA employ? 

Is there a list of all the coins and books they have? If they have any dup coins, those should be sold, not hoarded. 

I'd feel more inclined to donate to the ANA if I felt it was more transparent of an organization.

How many do they employ? In the order of 30 people, recently reduced from the mid-to-high 30's.

Edited August 12, 2020 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

Just now, VKurtB said:

The ANS and the ANA are two different organizations. The ANS is in New York. The ANA is in Colorado Springs.

I know that.  I was making an analogy that if the ANS can sell some of their holdings, so can the ANA.

[VKurtB]

Just now, VKurtB said:

Is there a list of all the coins and books they have?

Funny you should mention that. An inventory was authorized at the Board meeting yesterday, August 11.

[VKurtB]

Just now, World Colonial said:

I know that.  I was making an analogy that if the ANS can sell some of their holdings, so can the ANA.

Ah yes, sorry. Some gifts are restricted, but most are not. There is also Ben E. Keith stock, an endowment from a past wealthy donor, which is being slowly sold also. There have been several auction umm, deacquisitions, over the years. The hints are in past ANA convention auction catalogs.

[VKurtB]

14 minutes ago, gmarguli said:

I'd feel more inclined to donate to the ANA if I felt it was more transparent of an organization.

How would that manifest itself for you? I attended yesterday's Board meeting via Zoom. What would you like? The Board numbers 9 folks, and there are three staffers on all meetings. That's 12. The immediate past President makes 13. There were 21 people on yesterday's meeting, including yours truly.

Edited August 12, 2020 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

4 hours ago, RWB said:

The ANA seems to be in a very difficult financial situation. Any speculative thoughts - or solutions - out there?

The current dues structure is perhaps the greatest steal in all of numismatics. It could go up some. But how many people know the biggest revenue line item other then total dues? Or maybe even INCLUDING total dues. It's fees associated with Official Auctioneers at major ANA shows. Non-member attendance at their shows is a huge chunk.

I don't think the ANA is in immediate danger of Chapter 11, but I don't see how it could survive another closed show or two. The conventions are so utterly important to their cash flow.

Edited August 12, 2020 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

I wouldn't think they are close to Chapter 11 either.  But if they are, they can always request a bailout.  Everyone else seems to be asking for one.

[RWB]

Kieth stock (aka "Hallam Family Holdings") is in a sector hard hit by the virus. They showed limited revenue growth over the past 5 years, and are only average in productivity and efficiency. As a private company their stock has limited liquidity and must be independently evaluated whenever bought or sold.

ANA is structured around a static business model, and is highly impacted by any disruption of even the smallest parts of the revenue stream.

Edited August 12, 2020 by RWB

[VKurtB]

They've already reduced some "goodies" that go to people at the conventions. They've gone from ridiculous to merely generous. Discounted banquet tickets for exhibitors, for one. There's still a discount, but not as ridiculous as it was.

[RWB]

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

They've already reduced some "goodies" that go to people at the conventions. They've gone from ridiculous to merely generous. Discounted banquet tickets for exhibitors, for one. There's still a discount, but not as ridiculous as it was.

Agreed. They've shifted from natural rubber chicken to recycled (aka "dumpster dive") at the banquet. Next will be selling naming rights to the coins in their little collection.

Edited August 12, 2020 by RWB

[RWB]

Relocating from peaceful Colorado Springs could open better revenue and cooperative options for ANA. It might also get them out of that ugly "trailer" building they are in.

[GoldFinger1969]

2 hours ago, RWB said:

ANA is structured around a static business model, and is highly impacted by any disruption of even the smallest parts of the revenue stream.

501(c)-3's, clubs, charitable and professional organizations -- they all need endowments and foundations to support themselves during the lean times.

I'm on the board of a tax-exempt that will suffere a 75-90% drop in income this year and we are all volunteers. 

 

[VKurtB]

16 hours ago, RWB said:

Agreed. They've shifted from natural rubber chicken to recycled (aka "dumpster dive") at the banquet. Next will be selling naming rights to the coins in their little collection.

You haven't been at one lately, have you? The latest one had filet mignon.

[RWB]

RE: " The latest one had filet mignon."

Uhhhh....that was "filet pigeon" - typo on the menu.

As I understand it, the various dinners and such were not subsidized by ANA - they turned a modest profit. So -- changing from squab to game hen to fried nuggets makes no difference.

A difficulty is ANA's business model.

[VKurtB]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

RE: " The latest one had filet mignon."

Uhhhh....that was "filet pigeon" - typo on the menu.

As I understand it, the various dinners and such were not subsidized by ANA - they turned a modest profit. So -- changing from squab to game hen to fried nuggets makes no difference.

A difficulty is ANA's business model.

As a National Volunteer, I get a good discount, but I also bought a full price ticket for my (now, not yet then) wife.

[VKurtB]

Judging from the discussion surrounding the budgetary issues during Board meetings, I predict that volunteers, National and local, will be called upon to do tasks at conventions previously done only by ANA paid staff. The process is already underway. My (now) wife and I did all the badge photos last year at Rosemont for the table holders. Prior to Pittsburgh March 2019, this was done by staff. I did it solo at Pittsburgh. This trend will continue and accelerate. ANA staff has some considerable skill set, but they're not the only ones who do.  The Board is discovering this.