DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I have read that using water and baking soda to remove dirt/ grime from coins is the "proper" way to clean coins. I have been collecting for a while as a hobby. Now I am older, have completed some sets, and want to send in for grading and slabbing. Did I screw up decades of hunting by cleaning with water and baking soda? I am now afraid of getting back the dreaded "cleaned" designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Please say you did not actually do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Hello Just Bob. Yes I did on a few of my Morgans in my New Orleans set. I am guessing it was a big mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 First off - welcome to the forum. I am afraid you have committed a serious numismatic faux pas, and your Morgans will almost certainly not be straight graded. Please do not clean any of the others. And, what ever you read or viewed that told you to clean them with baking soda - burn it. Seriously, though, cleaning is definitely taboo these days, with "original surfaces" being in high demand with most collectors. Nothing stronger than distilled water, or maybe acetone, should be used, and definitely no rubbing. Even though the surfaces of coins are hard, they can be "hairlined" quite easily. EagleRJO and DonaldM 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Thanks for information. I never used a brush or cloth. Just soaking. Surprised about acetone because I thought all chemicals were bad. I really appreciate your time and advice. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, DonaldM said: Did I screw up decades of hunting by cleaning with water and baking soda? I am now afraid of getting back the dreaded "cleaned" designation. Yes, and you should confidently expect that designation if you send the coins in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I'm glad to hear that there was no rubbing involved. That should eliminate the problem of hairlines. However, if the appearance of the coins was altered, by lightening or otherwise changing the color, they may still receive a "details" grade. Fortunately, they may re-tone over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, DonaldM said: Thanks for information. I never used a brush or cloth. Just soaking. Surprised about acetone because I thought all chemicals were bad. I really appreciate your time and advice. Thanks. Also welcome to the boards, if you just set the coins into a baking soda solution and did not rub the coins with the slurry you may be ok. But if you did use the baking soda and your fingers to rub the surface it is very likely that you have done some damage to the surfaces. That slurry is just like sandpaper to the surface of a coin and you may have hairlined it. If you can post a few photos (clear in focus closeups) was may be able to see if there are signs of damage. DonaldM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 This a 78 rev 79. Bought on Ebay uncertified. It was doctored with fake toning. That is what I Googled to see how to clean it. The video said ti put coin in a bowl with baking soda. Add boiling water and sprinkle baking soda on it so it bubbles up. And keep repeating until its "clean". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 I see what you mean by hair line. Zooming in with my phone camera I see more than I do with my magnifying glass. Kills me I harmed that coin! Lesson learned, no more Youtube videos on coin care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Do you mind showing pictures of the whole coin - obverse and reverse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldM Posted August 12, 2020 Author Share Posted August 12, 2020 Just Bob, sorry for delay in responding. Fell asleep. Don't mind posting pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 The short answer on cleaning is: "Don't. The people who can safely ignore that advice know who they are." The longer answer is that it depends, but that you have to absolutely know what the *spoon* you are doing. If it weren't for some form of cleaning, big clods of encrusted ancients would remain big clods. Sometimes there is so much *spoon* on the coin you can't tell what it is. And sometimes there is a corrosive or damaging substance that must be removed; the conventional answer there is "that isn't cleaning; that's conservation." Some of us sarcastic killjoys feel that it's euphemistic in application, but that doesn't change the fact that PVC slime will rot the coin, and simple toning probably won't, and that there is a factual difference. DonaldM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 I did once read of one serious collector's method of using a very weak solution of baking soda in water to rapidly "stop" or "arrest" the action of a thiourea / acid dip, then a long soak in distilled water to rinse. Sounds like an analog to old-school photographic print making with the pH's reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 The horrible "baking soda paste" advice was doled out decades ago in well-read book(s), and that dreadful problem continues to haunt us today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 At least if you drink it, you won't suffer the same fate as J. Sanford Saltus. The Neophyte Numismatist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) On 8/13/2020 at 9:53 PM, James_OldeTowne said: The horrible "baking soda paste" advice was doled out decades ago in well-read book(s), The problem is today anytime someone mentions cleaning with baking soda, everyone assumes they mean using that paste. Dipping a coin in water that has had baking soda COMPLETELY dissolved in it, probably won't hurt it. As long as it gets a VERY thorough rinsing to remove every trace of that dissolved baking soda before it is allowed to dry. And yes it can be used to neutralize an acid dip. But then you still have to get all the baking soda off. Edited August 18, 2020 by Conder101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrinz Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Yeah that coin was hammered pretty badly not just with your 'cleaning' but also previous to you owning it. Too bad too its a 1878 7TF '79 Rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_OldeTowne Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 9 hours ago, Conder101 said: The problem is today anytime someone mentions cleaning with baking soda, everyone assumes they mean using that paste. Dipping a coin is water that has had backing soda COMPLETELY dissolved in it, probably won't hurt it. As long as it gets a VERY thorough rinsing to remove every trace of that dissolved baking soda before it is allowed to dry. And yes it can be used to neutralize an acid dip. But then you still have to get all the baking soda off. I agree, but when the nomenclature specifically mentions a "paste", then the consistency isn't likely to be beneficial even as a "dip". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy M Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 Is there a good way to restore a coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 @Timothy M--Welcome to the NGC chat board. You've posted in an old topic, but perhaps it should be revived. You can remove surface dirt and some adhesives that haven't corroded or otherwise chemically bonded with the surface metal of a coin by soaking it in a neutral solvent such as acetone. (There are topics on this forum with instructions and cautions.) Otherwise, the answer to your question is generally "no". Any chemical or abrasive process that affects the surface of the coin is generally undesirable and devaluing in the opinion of most collectors and the numismatic marketplace nowadays. Although coins that have been carefully "dipped" in an anti-tarnish solution to remove what is now called "toning" may still be numerically graded by the grading services, a "dipped" appearance may reduce the grade and if repeated may result in a "washed out" or otherwise unnatural appearance that will result in the coin being "details" graded as "improperly cleaned." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 3/12/2023 at 5:56 AM, Timothy M said: Is there a good way to restore a coin? The question is so simplistic that the reflex answer is "for the love of God, no." The reason for that is--no offense, just honest--if you ask that question that way, it proves that at this point you are years and probably decades away from ever becoming someone who should mess with his coins. And that's okay. You asked, hopefully before you destroyed any, and hopefully will abandon the whole notion at least until you come to understand what that question conveyed. It was about like going up to random women on the street and asking them for sex. Just as the path to getting laid simply does not work that way, neither does the path to coin cleaning simply mean watching a video or reading an article and congrats, now you're a coin cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VKurtB Posted March 12 Popular Post Share Posted March 12 There are ways to properly conserve or clean coins, BUT the chemicals and methods are proprietary and closely guarded secrets. People who know how simply refuse to talk about it. powermad5000, USAuPzlBxBob and ldhair 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 On 8/11/2020 at 9:51 PM, DonaldM said: I have read that using water and baking soda to remove dirt/ grime from coins is the "proper" way to clean coins. I have been collecting for a while as a hobby. Now I am older, have completed some sets, and want to send in for grading and slabbing. Did I screw up decades of hunting by cleaning with water and baking soda? I am now afraid of getting back the dreaded "cleaned" designation. No. There is no method for cleaning a coin that is suitable for ANY NOVICE to use. Don't do it. Baking soda will scratch a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted March 12 Share Posted March 12 The answer to the cleaning question is always NO. NGC states that a thorough rinse under warm water with NO RUBBING is sufficient to remove surface dirt and contaminants (with the exception of PVC residue), and the coin will still grade numerically but anything more will usually result in details grade. Submitting your coins to NCS will solve other issues such as PVC contamination and will not affect the original surface of the coin, but that also is assuming it was not previously cleaned before you got it. You learned a lesson the hard way. No more YouTube videos (unless you watch ANA or Mint videos, there is too much wrong information on Joe Blow's videos). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 3/12/2023 at 10:56 AM, VKurtB said: There are ways to properly conserve or clean coins, BUT the chemicals and methods are proprietary and closely guarded secrets. People who know how simply refuse to talk about it. I know one of those people. You probably know him as well. Apropos of nothing whatsoever, you know of anyone in Portland that might meet that description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 3/12/2023 at 7:39 PM, JKK said: I know one of those people. You probably know him as well. Apropos of nothing whatsoever, you know of anyone in Portland that might meet that description? Hmm, I wouldn’t know who to associate with Portland. Anyone with sense would be having Portland lonnnnng in their rear view mirror by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 3/13/2023 at 7:19 AM, VKurtB said: Hmm, I wouldn’t know who to associate with Portland. Anyone with sense would be having Portland lonnnnng in their rear view mirror by now. So you've spent a lot of time here? Interesting. I had no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) On 3/13/2023 at 9:28 AM, JKK said: So you've spent a lot of time here? Interesting. I had no idea. I was last in Portland in March of 2015, and I installed a One-Hour photo lab right across the street from the federal courthouse, in 1981 or thereabouts. No plans to return. By 2015, it was already the “People’s Republic of Portland”. Edited March 13 by VKurtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 3/13/2023 at 7:33 AM, VKurtB said: I was last in Portland in March of 2015, and I installed a One-Hour photo lab right across the street from the federal courthouse, in 1981 or thereabouts. No plans to return. By 2015, it was already the “People’s Republic of Portland”. Well, we'll miss you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
