Buying old dies as scrap metal 2 2

[RWB]

We’ve long been told that the Philadelphia Mint sold old, defaced coin and medal dies as scrap metal. Yet little referring directly to this business practice has been published.

Below is a brief letter from Henry Disston & Sons explicitly stating their prior purchase of “old scrap dies from the Mint.”

This is just one of many small treasures hiding in U.S. Mint archives and available through the foresight and generosity of the late Eric P. Newman and the Newman Numismatic Portal (NNP).

[GoldFinger1969]

What do they do with current dies ?  And what did they do with the dies from Liberty and Saint-Gaudens coins -- are they still stored at their respective mints ?

[RWB]

Crushed scrap metal fused into lumps. Sold to the highest bidder, I presume.

[Kirt]

So what on earth would make defaced dies so worthwhile to purchase for "as much as anybody else" for a firm that would need to factor in transportation costs?

Never mind, found my own answer. 19th Century letterhead is not so clear to me. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Kirt

[kbbpll]

I would imagine it was very high quality steel. People make knives out of old files for that reason.

[RWB]

According to a later letter, there were 680 lbs of steel. Given the high quality specialty steel die were made from, One can see why this saw blade and file maker would want it.

Edited May 9, 2020 by RWB
Corrected weight

[Kirt]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

According to a later letter, there were 380 lbs of steel. Given the high quality specialty steel die were made from, One can see why this saw blade and file maker would want it.

Yup. Let's start with me totally missing that they were actually in Philadelphia....

I also found a catalog of theirs from the early 1900s. Not only did they make saw blades, they made really specialized blades for all sorts of interesting uses. I can see the sense in it!

[RWB]

If I find anything giving the buying price I'll post it. I suspect the Mint was paid much more than common "scrap iron" prices.

[Nouzillet]

In a letter dated October 30th 1877

The SF super wrote to Director Linderman

Stating: Referring to your letter of the 29th ultimo in relation to the steel used in the experimental dies forwarded from the Philadelphia Mint I enclose herewith a report of our Coiner on the dies in question 

I would say that these dies do not suck, and that the test they have had is hardly a fair one to prove whether or not they will crack. From the reports made to me , I am of the opinion that the steel used in making these dies is of a quality superior to that used in dies sent to this Mint during the past year.

Very Respectfully OH LaGrange Supt

Note this was before the SF Morgan’s were struck in 1878 and the SF Mint workers would in fact have a rough go at it trying to harden the silver dollar dies sent from Philly

[RWB]

RE: "I would say that these dies do not suck, and that the test they have had is hardly a fair one..."

This line should read, "I would say that these dies no not sink, and that the test they have had is hardly a fair one." [RG104 E-1 Box 109]

The technology did not exist to manufacture specialty steel to precise specifications. Only some of it exists today.

Edited May 11, 2020 by RWB

[Nouzillet]

RWB LOL sorry about that, Yes of course you are right 

[RWB]

13 hours ago, Nouzillet said:

RWB LOL sorry about that, Yes of course you are right 

Just a typo -- Good find in the NNP documents, too!

The transcribed letter (immediately above) largely repeated the comments of SF Coiner Francis X. Cicott. The report, if there is anything formal, has not turned up -- yet!

:)

[Conder101]

15 hours ago, RWB said:

RE: "I would say that these dies do not suck,

Read that and thought "Wait was this 1877 or 1977?"

[RWB]

Yeah --- But, a die that had sunken in the center would hold a coin more tightly due to the vacuum created in a concave surface. Avoiding that is one of the reasons US mint dies were slightly convex.

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, Nouzillet said:

I would say that these dies do not suck, ....

"....dies do not suck"? Sorry, I'm not buying that. No way in [----] was such language used, and certainly not in formal correspondence. (Somebody get me Re-write!)

[RWB]

See the correction several posts above - the correct word is "sink."