Question on "best offer" 0

[kbbpll]

I submitted a "best offer" last night on the bay, and received the usual email. The seller countered, and then a minute later, I got a counteroffer retraction notice. I then found a new listing for a different coin, same year MM etc I'm interested in, better grade and much cheaper. So this morning I used "contact seller" on the first coin, and asked them to counter or reject my offer, so that I can be off the hook and buy the other coin. Instead, the seller sent me a "limited time offer" for 16% off, but still significantly more than I want to pay. This is an MS62 coin where the seller's original price is MS64 trend ATS, so I figured maybe they just read the wrong column in the price guide when listing it. I never received any notice that my original offer was rejected or countered, just this new "limited time offer". In "my Bids/Offers" however, this item is not listed. There's no "declined" or anything, it's like the seller made my original offer disappear.

Am I safe to purchase the other coin, or should I wait until tonight for my offer to expire on the first one? I certainly don't want two of them. Although the seller on the first coin is adamant that their's is worth the "limited time offer", my concern is that if they can make my offer disappear, they can make it reappear and accept it. Has anyone else experienced this scenario? I can't reject the limited time offer (I can only accept or ignore), and it appears that a seller has some power to make an offer disappear without explicitly rejecting it. It seems odd.

[Coinbuf]

I would wait until your original offer expires just to be safe.  I've never had that happen but I always set my offer to the shortest timeframe usually 12 hours just so I'm not stuck in limbo.  You don't have to worry about the sellers limited time offer your under no obligation for that one.  The only way I could see how this went down is if the seller ended the listing but has the item in his store and sent you the 16% off offer as a store item; maybe.

[kbbpll]

Thanks @Coinbuf, I've rarely used Make Offer and did not realize I could change the offer duration to 12 hours. I will do that from now on. The listing was not ended or relisted, and the "limited time offer" is on the same coin in my watch list, so I don't know what happened. The possibilities I can think of are that counteroffer and then retraction somehow removed my offer, or them extending this "limited time offer" negated the normal make offer process, or a seller has some other means to cancel someone's offer without generating the normal counter/reject emails and process. If I click "respond now" on the counteroffer email (from before it was retracted), ebay says "[seller] Retracted the counteroffer. You still have time to make another offer." That seems to imply that the offer process started over. I think I'm OK to buy the other coin.

 

[Coinbuf]

You could be right, I don't use the best offer all that much but haven't ever seen that happen even when making super lowball offers on coins price at 5X a real price.  

[Revenant]

When I make a counter-offer it removes the option to take their offer - so I assume that "rejecting" their offer is part of making the counter. So I'd be surprised if the seller still had the option of just taking your prior offer after they sent you a counter.

I'd say I use the counter offer more than Coinbuf does. Even when I think the sellers ask price is decent / reasonable, if they list "make offer" as an option I'll usually try to get them to come down 10-20% just because, why not try to save a little if they're saying they'll negotiate.

Yeah, you get the jokers asking 2x what the coin is worth that are only willing to take $1-5 off their asking price, but some of them will actually haggle with you. I've also found that if I'm patient and let the coin or note sit in their inventory for 4-6 months some of the jokers will become more willing to hear me out and give me something a lot closer to what I want. But that's a process of patience and I've seen some that will keep a coin or not listed at an overly high price for 2-3 years, paying listing fees and never making a sale. Sometimes I think they're either a collector that doesn't really want to sell the thing in the first place or they just like to have the thing out there to generate hits and get traffic into their eBay store.

It's  mad mad world.

[RWB]

According the the OP's first post, his counter-offer was rejected - that is, not accepted as presented. Unless the OP mad another offer, the matter is dead.

[kbbpll]

 

44 minutes ago, RWB said:

According the the OP's first post, his counter-offer was rejected

No. I made an offer. The seller made a counteroffer and then immediately retracted their counteroffer. I received email notifications of both these events within one minute of each other. Neither one of us explicitly rejected any offer, and I never made any counteroffer because the seller's counteroffer was retracted. My original offer is gone like it never happened. I can't say when exactly it disappeared or if the seller deliberately took an action that got rid of it. I only checked "my bids/offers" folder after receiving their "limited time offer", and noted that this coin and offer are not there. The folder does have another coin that I rejected a counteroffer on a couple days ago, where it says "declined" and gives me a chance to make another new offer. So, it's weird that this offer disappeared with neither one of us explicitly rejecting the other.

FYI, the asking price is $215 for an MS62 dime. That's what ATS price guide says for an MS64. There are at least two MS64 currently for sale for $220, which is why I thought the seller's price is way out of line. I offered MS62+ price, $135, because I liked the strike, and I messaged the seller that I thought he picked the wrong price guide column. His counter was $200 and then, like I said, he immediately retracted it. I never had a chance to counter. His "limited time offer" this morning was then $180. I don't know why the seller didn't just leave his $200 counter up and wait for me to counter or reject. The seller has almost 5000 feedbacks and 100% positive. It could be a sales tactic - do a phantom counteroffer for $200 so I see it in my email but can't counter because it's retracted, then dangle a $180 "limited time offer" so I think I'm getting an even better deal. Or it could be that he wanted to counter lower than $200 after giving it a second thought, but his retraction removed the offer entirely, so he used the "limited time" route.

My original offer expires in less than an hour (according to the original email) so it's not really a concern anymore. Just trying to decipher how this works for future reference, and maybe help somebody else.

[Abuelo's Collection]

Just ignore it and buy the one you like.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Abuelo's Collection
Error

[jgrinz]

The seller changed his mind and probably had another offer .

Since he had not agree to the your offered price and you did not agree to his counter price quickly enough both are negated as no one agreed to anything.

You just "watching" the coin gives him the ability to send offers to multiple people.

His limited time usage offer is his offer from using this watch list which he can send to multiple people and the first to grab gets the coin.

The coin is locked and he cannot sell the coin to any other buyer until the coin is accepted to purchase from one these 'watched" people

or time limit expires.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by jgrinz

[RWB]

OK. I misunderstood the original post.

If the seller's counteroffer was withdrawn, then the matter was dead.

[kbbpll]

Yes, the matter is dead. Just trying to figure out what went on. For now I'll assume that when a seller retracts a counteroffer, it kills the whole "offer" thing on ebay. Maybe it's a glitch.

I bought the other coin.

[jgrinz]

And a good decision it was  :-)

[LINCOLNMAN]

FWIW I only make offers on items that are priced reasonably. If the seller is way off I assume I'm wasting my time with a realistic offer. Plus, as the OP has encountered, I then have to wait for what is likely to be an unrealistic counter. Maybe others have had some luck with unreasonably priced OBO's? 

[Abuelo's Collection]

31 minutes ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

FWIW I only make offers on items that are priced reasonably. If the seller is way off I assume I'm wasting my time with a realistic offer. Plus, as the OP has encountered, I then have to wait for what is likely to be an unrealistic counter. Maybe others have had some luck with unreasonably priced OBO's? 

Few times. I found some sellers that put coins at crazy prices are sometimes willing to negotiate. Sure sometimes is a waste, but others worked out.

[Revenant]

54 minutes ago, LINCOLNMAN said:

FWIW I only make offers on items that are priced reasonably. If the seller is way off I assume I'm wasting my time with a realistic offer. Plus, as the OP has encountered, I then have to wait for what is likely to be an unrealistic counter. Maybe others have had some luck with unreasonably priced OBO's? 

I've had some luck but it involves patience.

I found a seller a while back offering the last notes I needed to complete my Zimbabwean 4th dollar set. The prices he wanted weren't reflective of the current market though - prices are way down in the last 4 years. He only offered to lower his ask by $1 per note so I walked and waited. 2 months later he lowered his ask but it was still high. 2 months later he lowered it again and took off the OBO but his prices were still too high. So a month or so later I sent him a message and said "Will you give me these 3 notes together for this price." He came back with a modestly higher price and I took it.

[Conder101]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:58 PM, kbbpll said:

The seller countered, and then a minute later, I got a counteroffer retraction notice.

He countered, and then retracted that counteroffer.  But he didn't sent an acceptance. I would consider that a rejection.  Send him a note recinding your counteroffer and move on.

[kbbpll]

3 hours ago, Conder101 said:

I would consider that a rejection

You would, but would ebay? That was my concern all along. The seller apparently can retract a counteroffer, but I can't retract my original offer. I was worried that the seller could magically resurrect my offer and accept it, the same way they magically made it disappear, and then I would be obligated to purchase it. I must be having trouble explaining the scenario. Typically the seller or buyer accepts an offer, and it's done. Or either party rejects an offer or counteroffer, and it's done. There's a paper trail. This time, it was in limbo. I don't mean to drag this out, it's over with. Just be aware that if a seller counters and then immediately retracts their counter, there's no indication as to what happened to your offer. It just disappears.

[Revenant]

7 hours ago, kbbpll said:

You would, but would ebay? That was my concern all along. The seller apparently can retract a counteroffer, but I can't retract my original offer. I was worried that the seller could magically resurrect my offer and accept it, the same way they magically made it disappear, and then I would be obligated to purchase it. I must be having trouble explaining the scenario. Typically the seller or buyer accepts an offer, and it's done. Or either party rejects an offer or counteroffer, and it's done. There's a paper trail. This time, it was in limbo. I don't mean to drag this out, it's over with. Just be aware that if a seller counters and then immediately retracts their counter, there's no indication as to what happened to your offer. It just disappears.

It probably didn't completely disappear. They cap you to I think 4-5 offers on an item to keep you from harassing the seller I guess.

[Conder101]

You send your counteroffer retraction through ebays message system that puts a record on their system and you have a record on your own system as well in case they remove it from their system.  True they may insist you honor your counteroffer but they can't actually force you to pay up.  And if ebay and the seller do try to force you into it you can always just send it back with a SNAD claim.

[LINCOLNMAN]

16 hours ago, Revenant said:

I've had some luck but it involves patience.

I found a seller a while back offering the last notes I needed to complete my Zimbabwean 4th dollar set. The prices he wanted weren't reflective of the current market though - prices are way down in the last 4 years. He only offered to lower his ask by $1 per note so I walked and waited. 2 months later he lowered his ask but it was still high. 2 months later he lowered it again and took off the OBO but his prices were still too high. So a month or so later I sent him a message and said "Will you give me these 3 notes together for this price." He came back with a modestly higher price and I took it.

I do admit I've been working on a listed medal (not eBay) for about two years. The seller will likely die with his medal before he gets his price, but keeps insisting that market values have gone up since he listed it. The opposite is true but he's stubborn. Me too, only because it's one of three that I need to complete a series. Not valuable but scarce. So, the dollar amount isn't significant, it's the principle!