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Could this be the real deal??
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25 posts in this topic

Looks like it might be real. I would weigh it, bearing in mind a 5%+ loss of metal due to heavy wear, and compare that to the standard.

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It looks real enough to me, but I'm not a Morgan guy. I would put it at around VG and probably cleaned, but we need better focus on the obverse image. As JKK says, weigh it if you can. Should be 26.73 grams minus +/- 5% due to extensive wear. Recent VG Details sales are in the $375 range. If you intend to sell it, the value seems enough to justify getting it authenticated. If your heart is sinking because you see 4+ figure values listed, this is not one of those coins grade-wise, sorry.

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I wouldn't give that VG if someone paid me. AG. Maybe. The main reason I suspect it might be authentic is the reverse is so brutally worn.

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Forgive me, but I do t do t what VG or AG means but I will find out ... someone e I know gifted my grandson a few coins and told me the significance of collecting them and since then, I've been on the hunt. I'll hold on to this coin for sure ... thank you so much for replying.

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12 hours ago, kbbpll said:

It looks real enough to me, but I'm not a Morgan guy. I would put it at around VG and probably cleaned, but we need better focus on the obverse image. As JKK says, weigh it if you can. Should be 26.73 grams minus +/- 5% due to extensive wear. Recent VG Details sales are in the $375 range. If you intend to sell it, the value seems enough to justify getting it authenticated. If your heart is sinking because you see 4+ figure values listed, this is not one of those coins grade-wise, sorry.

Thank you for your reply ... I'll get it looked at and go from there.

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3 minutes ago, B.C said:

Vg and ag  are grades 

Vg is very good and ag is about good which is pretty confusing being they are very poor grades 

Ok, thanks for clarifying 

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Click the link below to get an idea of the different grades for your type of coin, (use the faint gray arrow on the far left center of the page to scroll all the way to the lowest grades.)

Click here

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4 hours ago, Dion T said:

Forgive me, but I do t do t what VG or AG means but I will find out ... someone e I know gifted my grandson a few coins and told me the significance of collecting them and since then, I've been on the hunt. I'll hold on to this coin for sure ... thank you so much for replying.

No problem. Here is the grading scale to which we refer. Note that the numbers correspond to ranges within the same letter grade at G and up: G-4 through 6, VG-8 through 10, F-12 through 15, VF-20 through 35, and so on. That listing also has a generalized description of the characteristics of the grade. Looking at it, you will see why I said AG(-3): the reverse's rims are not complete. While the type-specific standards do not all indicate a need for full rims in order to reach G-4, it's the general tendency. Since the reverse doesn't help a coin, but can hurt it, the arguably G-4 obverse can't hold up (in my opinion) to the heavy reverse wear.

All of that is distinct, of course, from the question of authenticity and/or surface alteration. Those are the other two issues: is it real, and if so, is it natural or altered (by cleaning, for example)? It looks real to me and does not look cleaned, but we really need the weight in order to progress on authenticity.

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NGC ranks this as the 43rd most counterfeited US coins. I've copied and pasted what they wrote about this coin. Hopefully your coin is the real deal. Good luck.

 

43. 1889-CC Morgan Dollar

The 1889-CC Morgan dollar is the second silver dollar to make this list. Only 350,000 examples were struck at the Carson City Mint, and many ended up in melting pots later. Due to its value, this coin is an attractive target for counterfeiters. The most common type of fake is simply an added mintmark. The 1889 Philadelphia issue is quite common, which makes it a prime target to add on the mintmark. Outright counterfeits are often seen at NGC as well, but are usually not as deceptive as the added mintmark examples can be. Read more >

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Looks real to me 

Looks like a G-4 

IT probably will come back as a damaged details holder because of rim damage

IMO

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You guys know way more then I do on Morgan's but TBH I would have called it a fake i don't like the Ds in dollar and United  to start with looks like it's a rectangle the other letters also have these 90 degree angles that I've never seen before 

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9 hours ago, jgrinz said:

Looks real to me 

Looks like a G-4 

IT probably will come back as a damaged details holder because of rim damage

IMO

Agreed with one quibble - I see it as G-6. Rim damage is a crapshoot! 

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From my ANA Grading Standards guide, for G-4, Morgan dollars, reverse:

  • Eagle is worn nearly flat but is completely outlined (check, barely).
  • Design elements smooth but visible (check).
  • Legend is all visible; rim is full (check; not even close).

This coin manifestly fails one of the criteria for G-4. Which makes sense, because its reverse looks quite like the AG-3 example in my guide. Oh, and it's at least open to question whether the obverse rim should be considered full. If so, it's just barely.

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8 hours ago, Kirt said:

Agreed with one quibble - I see it as G-6. Rim damage is a crapshoot! 

I went down a notch possible 2 cause of the rim damage ( damage NOT wear ) 

Almost looks like it was mounted and bent the rim 

The reverse picture, which is much better the obverse, Look at 12 oclock / 6 oclock / 7 oclock and 9 oclock.

I have no problem with an AG3 on this coin @JKK

 

 

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I agree there's rim damage. Whether it would rise to the level of a details grade is a fair question; not one I considered, but it surely exists. I don't think it lowers the grade, but it might change the way it would slab.

In any case, the odds are middling at best on authenticity. Looks okay, but a highly counterfeited issue.

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2 hours ago, JKK said:

I agree there's rim damage. Whether it would rise to the level of a details grade is a fair question; not one I considered, but it surely exists. I don't think it lowers the grade, but it might change the way it would slab.

In any case, the odds are middling at best on authenticity. Looks okay, but a highly counterfeited issue.

Ok, I'm now convinced on AG too. Rim damage, rim wear...it doesn't meet the G4 criteria. It's a bit odd that the rim wore that much more than the devices, but it did.

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6 hours ago, Mti said:

Is the coin rim more important than the rest of the coin?

 

No, but grading criteria for most grades include expectations for the rim. For example, I think the threshold for EF insists that there can be no rim dings, even minor ones. These aren't minor, though, and the distinction is between normal wear (however pervasive) and damage. When one can no longer see the rims due to wear (as on your reverse), they are said to be not full.

Look at the wide bumps at the spots that jgrinz pointed out, as if the coin was dropped hard on its edge in those spots. On the obverse, see what might be two gouges at 9:00; that also is not normal wear, but damage.

Edited by JKK
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My other issue is that who would really copy a VAM designation as this is a VAM-4 which have the CC's

Tilting left. If you want to make a comparison of the authenticity ( MINE IS NOT A VAM 4 but a 5a  ) Click my Morgan link on my

tag line - I have a VG10 which you can compare if it helps the OP

 

Edited by jgrinz
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