1989 D Lincoln Penny Need Help grading. 1 1

[Marquez-Collector]

I need to hone my grading skills. So I would say that this penny would come in at MS67. 

@KarenHolcomb I know you have mention cartwheel method for grading a coin where can I learn about that? 

 

[VKurtB]

First, let me say I really dislike grading from photos. There is a third (and metaphysically, a fourth) dimension that plays heavily in the top grades. That said, I might have gone MS67 except for what LOOKS LIKE rub at the bottom of good ol' Abe.

[Marquez-Collector]

11 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

plays heavily in the top grades

I don't understand, does it mean, that they grade lower in picture than if you had them physically? I'm sorry, I may need more coffee

13 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

LOOKS LIKE rub at the bottom of good ol' Abe.

I did not notice that, I may have to go back and look at the coin again later today. With that, should be knocked down a point to like MS66?  

Maybe I should start by taking a Grading course, or reading more into it.  

Thanks Again VKurtB

[VKurtB]

What I'm saying is grading in the high grades requires tilting the coin to get various angles of light from it. Even swirling it in a tilting circle, like a miniature 'panning for gold' motion.

[Crawtomatic]

Personally, I hate chasing perfection on modern Lincoln cents because it's so frustrating.  Well, at least anything from 66-84 at least.  But having said that, it's a small coin so there's not much room for error.

Questions/statements about your pictured coin:

1. is that a zinc bubble around the southeast edge of the mint mark?

2. the mark in the western field isn't too bad on it's own but does bring attention to the other mark on the collar.

3. in hand is there discoloration on the reverse?  above UNITED, to the right of the memorial, above the "RI" in America?

4. along with the friction at the bottom of Abe as Kurt pointed out I'd say we're looking at a grade reduction.

[KarenHolcomb]

See DUKE. What Kurt. Is calling swirling is the same as my pinwheeling. Tilting the Coin in the light with bring out all its imperfection. Whenever you are self grading I suggest grading your final grade be at 2 grades down from what you think it is, that way you aren't sending one in that will disappoint you. I also hear that it is a good idea to develope a relationship with your local brick and mortar coin shop owner and he or she can also have a look see, in hand, to better help you out.

As far as learning to grade, there are classes that Kurt can likely tell you more about, but if those aren't an option PCGS has a PhotoGrade App that is far from perfect but can give you an idea of what each grade for each coin should look like. I don't use it so much anymore but I sure did a year ago, and they also put out a video series on youtube that you can watch. While I generally would not offer up a youtube solution, these are short 2 or 3 minutes each about the process that goes into grading and are not those stupid one trying to get you all excited over nothing. I will try to find a link and message it to you.

If our Host has something similar I'd love to know about it so I can share it in the future instead.

[Marquez-Collector]

15 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Even swirling it in a tilting circle

oh... This is what @KarenHolcomb was talking about, when she mentioned the Cartwheel method perhaps? 

[Marquez-Collector]

5 minutes ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

Personally, I hate chasing perfection on modern Lincoln cents because it's so frustrating.  Well, at least anything from 66-84 at least.  But having said that, it's a small coin so there's not much room for error.

Questions/statements about your pictured coin:

1. is that a zinc bubble around the southeast edge of the mint mark? I do believe it is, and I will take a closer picture. 

2. the mark in the western field isn't too bad on it's own but does bring attention to the other mark on the collar. 

3. in hand is there discoloration on the reverse?  above UNITED, to the right of the memorial, above the "RI" in America? I will take a closer picture.

4. along with the friction at the bottom of Abe as Kurt pointed out I'd say we're looking at a grade reduction. I will take a closer picture.

I will upload more pictures of the areas in question later tonight.  OMG this is really good feedback I am loving it.  Thank You all.  

[KarenHolcomb]

7 minutes ago, Dukemnm said:

oh... This is what @KarenHolcomb was talking about, when she mentioned the Cartwheel method perhaps? 

Yeah. You remember the little Pinwheels we got as kids? There were on a wooded stick and you'd blow on them and make them spin and when the sunshine or any light hit them they were so pretty. I guess whether the world wants us all to identify as we wish there are just some girly things that can't be denied. Lol! Ooops!

[VKurtB]

18 minutes ago, KarenHolcomb said:

Yeah. You remember the little Pinwheels we got as kids? There were on a wooded stick and you'd blow on them and make them spin and when the sunshine or any light hit them they were so pretty. I guess whether the world wants us all to identify as we wish there are just some girly things that can't be denied. Lol! Ooops!

Isn't that what Maxwell the Pig is playing with outside the car window in the GEICO TV ad? Wheeeeee!

[KarenHolcomb]

2 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Isn't that what Maxwell the Pig is playing with outside the car window in the GEICO TV ad? Wheeeeee!

Wweeeeee!!!

[Marquez-Collector]

I certainly feel like Maxwell. so much useful information. thank you. 

Whee, wheee, wheeeeeeee!!!!

[Marquez-Collector]

11 hours ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

is that a zinc bubble around the southeast edge of the mint mark?

Yes, it looks like a zinc bubble. I wish it wasn't  

11 hours ago, CRAWTOMATIC said:

. in hand is there discoloration on the reverse?  above UNITED, to the right of the memorial, above the "RI" in America?

I did the pinwheel thing that @KarenHolcomb mentioned and I did not notice any discoloration. 

I have included additional pictures. I was able to see the rub at the bottom but it was hard for me to spot mark in the western field you mentioned @CRAWTOMATIC. I had to use magnification to spot it. 

I have a long way to go and definitely a mountain of knowledge to learn.  

Thanks again. 

[KarenHolcomb]

One thing to remember, and I think one of the vids mentions this too, is that when you send a coin in to be graded the Graders don't use a loupe any stronger than like 7 or 10x magnification. So if you are looking through a 20 or 30x mag loupe or taking pictures with a 400x camera you are going to see things they are not going to see. The same goes with errors and defects. If you can't see an error or defect with a 7 or 10x mag then they aren't going to either. Although...they have likely been looking at way more coins than us and some stuff probably jumps off the coin at them. See?

[Marquez-Collector]

[Marquez-Collector]

1 minute ago, KarenHolcomb said:

One thing to remember, and I think one of the vids mentions this too, is that when you send a coin in to be graded the Graders don't use a loupe any stronger than like 7 or 10x magnification. So if you are looking through a 20 or 30x mag loupe or taking pictures with a 400x camera you are going to see things they are not going to see. The same goes with errors and defects. If you can't see an error or defect with a 7 or 10x mag then they aren't going to either. Although...they have likely been looking at way more coins than us and some stuff probably jumps off the coin at them. See?

The Loup I use is 7X. Then I should not be using the microscope? 

[KarenHolcomb]

13 minutes ago, Dukemnm said:

The Loup I use is 7X. Then I should not be using the microscope? 

Well, you use what you are comfortable with. Just keep those things in your head while you do. You know, looking through a loupe or glass can really screw your eyes and every ones eyesight is different. Like me, I never had worn glasses when I started a couole years ago, now I do and I also use a 30x loupe. I find that the scope gives my eyes a break. And my fingers from how you gotta hold the coin and the loupe

[VKurtB]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:14 AM, Dukemnm said:

The Loup I use is 7X. Then I should not be using the microscope? 

In a word? No. In more than 1 word, microscopes are NOT a numismatic tool that is EVER used by graders. 90%+ is done with NO magnification whatsoever, just a light, two eyes, and 20 years of experience.

[Marquez-Collector]

1 hour ago, VKurtB said:

In a word? No. In more than 1 word, microscopes are NOT a numismatic tool that is EVER used by graders. 90%+ is done with NO magnification whatsoever, just a light, two eyes, and 20 years of experience.

Thanks 

Is there ever a reason to use a microscope?

[VKurtB]

10 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

Thanks 

Is there ever a reason to use a microscope?

In my opinion, no, not really. The only exception I can think of is to illustrate some random feature for a book or a talk you're giving. In "normal" numismatics, no.

 

Oh wait, there IS one reason: if you're looking for itty bitty tiny varieties that no one much even cares very much about, then yes.

Edited August 27, 2019 by VKurtB

[Marquez-Collector]

48 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Oh wait, there IS one reason: if you're looking for itty bitty tiny varieties that no one much even cares very much about, then yes.

Smart Donkey...   you are too funny, I think I am beginning to understand your humor. 

Thank you @VKurtB

[VKurtB]

3 hours ago, Dukemnm said:

Smart Donkey...   you are too funny, I think I am beginning to understand your humor. 

Thank you @VKurtB

By Jove, I do believe you just MAY be starting to understand it. It's acerbic, maybe a bit snarky, but  ALWAYS based on my true opinions.