1713MXo J Mexico SPANISH COLONY 8 Escudos

[Clay of Ark]

Hello members!  I joined today because I found a coin.  I wonder how often some hopeful topic begins this way around here!  I went home last night from my office where I found it in a furniture piece I purchased at auction.  It was inside a drawer in a nightstand or chest of drawers. 

All night I searched, to no avail, for a magnet to confirm that the coin is gold or if it has other metals.  When I came into work this morning I found a magnet and while other items were easily lifted and carried the magnet had zero visible affect to the gold coin.

I will add some photos in the hopes that I can get some additional information.  Maybe it is real, maybe it is a solid gold fake.  I do not know the year for certain, but in just checking the last 16 hours it does look like the date is 1713 but I am not experienced to be certain.

Anyone taking the time to help, thank you in advance!

[JKK]

36 minutes ago, Clay of Ark said:

Hello members!  I joined today because I found a coin.  I wonder how often some hopeful topic begins this way around here!

Frequently--and that's a good thing. Even better when it's something more interesting than a 2018 penny that someone is absolutely convinced is a double die (and wants to argue with us as to why we're wrong). Or a clumsily reproduced 1776 Continental dollar. Or a terrible fake 1804 silver dollar. We're willing to break the bad news to them, and we do so almost daily. It's a lot more fun when there's a realistic chance someone may have found a legitimately cool thing.

The first thing we need is weight and diameter. I am unsure how you determined it was an 8 escudo piece, but I've long been in the market for a 2 escudo (doubloon), and I know that's about the size of a quarter (but naturally weighs much more). An 8 escudo of this era is about 27g--about .8 oz of gold when all is said and done. I'm also unsure where you saw the lettering you specify in the thread title. For diameter, please give minimum and maximum since the coin is an irregular cob style.

[Clay of Ark]

Perfect!  I could not be more rookie than I am right now, and that was why I made the post- to learn something.  I came to my inexperienced thoughts based solely on fast research by myself.  My next response to this thread will include some pictures.  Thanks!

 

[Clay of Ark]

Here are some additional pictures.

[JKK]

We do this in metric, not English units. However, looks to me like an average diameter of 19mm. .2 oz. is very insufficiently precise, but taking it at face value, that would be about 5.6g. The escudo was about 3.38g; the doubloon was about 6.77g. It is possible, of course, that a coin could have been clipped, but irregularly shaped cob coinage is not odd to find.

Without more accurate measurement of weight, I'm not sure what to say about this one. It appears to straddle the difference between two denominations, which does not bode well for authenticity. About 18mm was typical for the escudo; 21-23mm for the doubloon. Again, it's not quite either fish or fowl.

My advice would be to have it tested to see if it's really even gold, or just gold-plated something. An underlying base of iron and/or nickel would jump to a magnet, but some other metals would not. If it's a real doubloon (we may fairly assume it's not an escudo, right, since who would mint an overweight, oversize escudo), it's worth pretty decent money. But until we find if it's even gold, we can't say.

[Clay of Ark]

With that in mind then, I will set out and see if I can find someone locally who can do that test and tell me exactly what I have.  Thank you for your time and I will post back here once I have some confirmation of what it is exactly.

[coinsandmedals]

This is far removed from my area of focus, so I do not have anything intelligent to add. JKK is very knowledgeable and brings up some pretty good points. However, it should be pointed out that if the place you are having the coin tested is using a stone and acid be sure to have them scrape the edge and not either face of the coin. Should it turn out to be genuine, the damage to either face could impact the value.

[JKK]

21 minutes ago, Clay of Ark said:

With that in mind then, I will set out and see if I can find someone locally who can do that test and tell me exactly what I have.  Thank you for your time and I will post back here once I have some confirmation of what it is exactly.

Very good. Most coin dealers, and surely all precious metal dealers, will have the ability to assay. I would be very up front that you aren't looking to sell it (unless you are), so that if they need to charge a fee, would they please let you know what that is. It should not be very much and they should be able to do this in a way that doesn't disfigure the coin (ask them how they go about that). The proper gold proportion of a cob doubloon from this era is 91.7% Au. Of course, a rare coin dealer will also be able to give you an eyes-on opinion regarding authenticity. They will also have the ability to weigh it in grams. If .2 oz. means .155 oz., or .248 oz., that would shift our understanding of the actual weight. As you can see from that span, it could make a big difference.

If you are made a sudden offer, don't take it on the spot--especially if it's less than several gs. There are dealers who, upon deciding that it's real, might try to induce you to sell it for a bargain price (in some cases even for melt; ethical dealers would not do that, but there are such creatures as unethical dealers). If you get an offer of any sort, say you'll think about it, and come back here so we can identify it and find true market values. That way, if it is real, you'll be able to make an educated selling (or not) decision. Oh, and coinsandmedals is absolutely right about testing. Anywhere on the face is disfiguring, which leaves only the edge as a more or less safe method.

[Sean Reilly13]

Just my 1cent, as I myself know next to ZERO (Which is just that 0!) about what the actual wt. size etc should be on a coin of this type...

I will add that I myself do own a 1788 8 Escudo (JJ Columbia) which of course....Has ZERO to do with the questions at hand! LOL....But....I would CERTAINLY suggest that you indeed Start out by having the Au assayed, Butt! I would certainly find a "High End" Reputable Coin Dealer or Jeweler that has the latest Eqiptment that does not have to damage the piece in question AT ALL! Not stepping on ANY toes here but the Electronic Equipment used in todays Hi End Shops need not sacrifice even 1 Grain of the metal of that piece, because 95% of the Hi End Dealers have invested in the latest X-Ray (Fluoroscopy) Technology in order to be able to give the EXACT metallurgical make up of anything brought into their Store that They Themselves might want to purchace!!.....And these machines need not even come into contact with the peice to be tested (Except for a Precise Weight) As these machines unfortunately are a HUGE NECESSITY as more than 37% Of Professionaly Packaged and Sealed Gold Bullion Bars have been found to be EXTREMELY GOOD FAKES!!!......YEP! Some of these Mini Ingots (Right down to the 2oz variety have shown to have up to 3.5mm of .9999 Fine Au (Gold Plating) on them!!....More than enough to "Pass" the Nitric acid "Scrach" Test! And the middle is Pure Lead!!....And you would NOT BELIEVE The extent these unscrupulous SOB's went that extra 10 MILES! on packaging, and the Quality Control of these Ingots themselves!!.....TRUST ME, These Coin/Bullion Dealers were AMAZED at the counterfeiters Overall Quality! And Trust Me! Buyer Beware on E-Bay when it comes to these Fake Pamp, And Suisse Bars!!.....ONLY BUY THEM FROM SOMBODY LIKE APMEX, MONACO etc. As Trust Me! I watched as longtime Dealers were Fooled in this special!.....(Its on YouTube now)  

As I watched a special on this where people that had thought they had Many, Many Thosands of Dollars in Gold in their safes, and safety deposit boxes, wound up having a BUNCH OF JUNK! 

But just in case this Coin IS Genuine! And is Pirate Treasure! You do NOT Want ANY Scratches from sombody testing the Gold content.......As from what I have read, even if it turnes out to be a fake Coin......Chances are IT IS INDEED REAL HI FINESS Gold in most cases!

I wish you ALL THE LUCK THAT YOU FOUND YOURSELF ONE HECK OF A COIN! As I hope it IS GENUINE!...But at any rate, most fakes are Indeed made out of REAL GOLD!....

Sean 

[Conder101]

On 4/2/2019 at 7:52 PM, Sean Reilly13 said:

Some of these Mini Ingots (Right down to the 2oz variety have shown to have up to 3.5mm of .9999 Fine Au (Gold Plating) on them!!

That thickness would fool an XRF gun as well. Typical penetration depths for such guns is only a few thousandths of a mm.