Rare Bust 1812/1 50c sold at common money

[Nutmeg Coin]

Here was one of a group of Bust 50c coins that sold on ebay as buy it nows at fractions of real value:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1812-U-S-Half-Dollar-Capped-Bust-KM-37-Wayte-Raymond-Toning-/252825966942?hash=item3add9a195e%3Ag%3AczoAAOSwax5Y0uvS&nma=true&si=UiJhk8XWiHELwou8eyRKqrJpM8o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Would knowledgeable collectors or dealers have an ethical duty to alert sellers who are selling at tiny fractions of real value?

The coin:  http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/6102

[BillJones]

I don't think that that 1812 half dollar sold for a "firesale" price. The reverse grades EF, but the obverse is only VF-25 and that's the side that has far more to do with the grade. The Gray Sheet says a VF is worth $150.

[WoodenJefferson]

Are you saying this is a counterfeit over date? I'm sorta lost as usual.

[Nutmeg Coin]

It's a rare variety, has been discussed here:  https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/978737/somebody-scored#latest

 

Lance Keigwin said it was worth around $12K.

[numisport]

It does appear to be lg 8 overdate. However is it really 12k coin. I can imagine there are more unattributed coins out there do you think ?

[physics-fan3.14]

2 hours ago, numisport said:

It does appear to be lg 8 overdate. However is it really 12k coin. I can imagine there are more unattributed coins out there do you think ?

Based on my interpretation of the grade, it's probably more likely $7k - $8k. But yes, this is a genuinely rare coin with a consistentlyhigh premium.

[bstrauss3]

Quote

Would knowledgeable collectors or dealers have an ethical duty to alert sellers who are selling at tiny fractions of real value?

No, eBay is an open outcry auction site. Everybody has the same information about the object for sale, they bring their personal knowledge and money to the table.

 

Now telling the seller - would that be a good thing karma-wise? Sure. And the karmic chicken ALWAYS comes home to roost.

[physics-fan3.14]

My personal opinion on this coin depends on the nature of the seller.

It appears to me that the seller is a dealer (his Ebay store name is "American Money Gold Coin.") This indicates that he is a dealer. Dealers are expected to know these sorts of things - very rare and well known (and well documented) varieties are fair game. If he didn't take the time to check what he's selling, that is the very definition of a "cherrypick." Is a cherrypick less acceptable because its worth more? Are you willing to cherry a $400 coin for $180, but not a $1000? An $8000? Where do you draw the line? This sort of relativism means that some cherries are good, but some are bad.... and I just don't buy it. The dealer is expected to be educated on well known varieties, and I'd say the 1812/1 Large 8 is one of those.

On the other hand, if the seller is a non-professional, we as the educated ones are responsible to protect the uneducated. It isn't fair to take advantage of them. Some granny selling a few coins, or some kid who just inherited a collection can't be expected to know about these types of varieties. I would share my knowledge, offer them a lot more than they are asking. 

[WoodenJefferson]

...only once it's authenticated though, that would be a fair deal.

[Buellfast]

This is a subject I am interested in. Been collecting capped bust half for years. Got Donald Parsley 4th edition Early half dollar die varieties 1794-1836. Use Jules Reiver Early Silver Dollars 1794-1803 for the big dollars. Got really good at figuring out die varieties even from scans on line looking for more rare strikes. Before I got the books found out I had some R3, R4, and one R5. When I had them certified all my die varieties were correct.

Since the books have cherry picked two more R5 and two R6. None of these did I pay any more than what a R1 or R2 coin goes for.

It makes me wonder if an R6 coin which is very rare if you think about it is only worth as much as a non rare coin. Is it because more people care more about the date than the die? Both of my R6, one 1795 flowing hair half and a 1798 draped bust dollar had die breaks that limited their run & only few coins remain. Both are certified. In any case I like rare coins and the die cracks makes them more interesting.

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

It looks like this coin was sold on ebay in minutes, "watch count" indicated it went in under 10 minutes, but the guy was selling a number of other coins: http://www.watchcount.com/#serp  : https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/978737/somebody-scored#latest

eBay...">1812 U.S. Half Dollar, Capped Bust, KM #37, Wayte Raymond Toning (no subtitle) Fixed-Price/BIN [similar items] Time Left: 0s Completed Listing

–—–»»–—–»» { See Active Listings Similar to this Item... } ««–—–««–—–
	Seller:	windinwillowz[efb][sld]
	View Count:	5		Watch Count:	(unavailable)*
	Start Time:	Wednesday, 22-Mar-17 21:27:13 UTC
	End Time:	Wednesday, 22-Mar-17 21:38:21 UTC  (14.09 days ago)
Current Bid/Price (USD):		$ 185.00		Best Offer Enabled
Sold For (USD):		$ 185.00eBay...">(also check price here on eBay) [History]
	»» Tip: Try our Completed Listings search tool, which displays Best Offer selling prices. ««
–—–»»–—–»» { See Active Listings Similar to this Item... } ««–—–««–—–
Listed on Site:		eBay.com(US)		In Country:	US
Location (by Seller):		Washington, District Of Columbia
Primary Category:		Coins & Paper Money > Coins US > Half Dollars > Early Halves (1794-1839) (#11969) [mw] [ms] [mb]
Quantity Total: 1      Sold: 1      Available: 0

I don't know what the real distinction is between "dealer" and "collector" as almost anyone can call themselves a "dealer" when they may be selling for others and not numismatists.  I don't hold myself out as an expert but try to rely on others to make final judgments.

[physics-fan3.14]

Nutmeg, some people are obviously dealers. These folks run businesses, have professional fronts, and are held to the highest standard. They always say "caveat emptor", but that implies that the seller had better be aware as well.  

Some people are obviously non-hobbyists. These folks are just trying to dispose of what they've got. I'll help them out as much as possible (I won't ask for a discount of these folks, but common courtesy says that if I score you $10k, you throw me a bone and give me a discount). Even if the BIN ended minutes after listing, if I present information like this you can be sure they would cancel the sale and investigate further. 

Others fall in between - the vest pocket dealers, the hobbyist who's trying to sell some excess or get some money back, or the consignment shop. It is sometimes hard to distinguish these folks from the professional dealer. The vest pocket dealers and hobbyists are where it gets even trickier - I'd expect them to due their due diligence, and I'd expect them to be knowledgeable about what they're selling. 

The seller in question, if you look at his feedback, seems to sell a fairly decent amount of coins. I'd say he's a dealer, based on everything I see - and so let the cherries fall as they may. 

[Nutmeg Coin]

He may be technically a "dealer" but businesses run as incompetently as his, which you can demonstrate from his transactions over the last month, don't last long.