Could this be the first "cameo proof coin" in numismatics?

[RWB]

On August 12, 1839 Mint Director Robert M. Patterson sent “two specimens of a half-dollar of a new impression, which I respectfully submit to you for your approbation” to Treasury Secretary Levi Woodbury. At the bottom of the letter, Patterson added a post -script, “P.S.: You will remark that one of the figures is bright and the other frosted.”

 

Both coins were patterns made specifically for the Secretary’s approval, and likely came from polished dies. For the Director to specifically call out “one of the figures is bright and the other frosted” implies deliberate action to create different appearances.

 

Could this be the first official description of a “cameo proof coin” in numismatics?

[numisport]

Were these examples Judd attributed ? According to US Patterns J101 pieces were struck later for Henry Linderman's personal collection but I can find no reference to any others of the period. Maybe they were melted.

[WoodenJefferson]

For now I will just assume that the entire coin was frosted and not just the devices with mirrored fields. Perhaps the dies were pickled which would impart the frosty appearance when struck.

[RWB]

5 hours ago, numisport said:

Were these examples Judd attributed ? According to US Patterns J101 pieces were struck later for Henry Linderman's personal collection but I can find no reference to any others of the period. Maybe they were melted.

Sorry, I don't understand the comment. The letter is from 1839.

[numisport]

3 hours ago, RWB said:

Sorry, I don't understand the comment. The letter is from 1839.

I thought there might be some reference to pattern coins of that period and the first cameo appearing patterns look to be the J101 pieces but I may be chasing my tail here and admit I have no background in pattern coins. I do love cameo proofs however.

[RWB]

Oh, OK. The idea of "cameo proof" is a modern invention, although certainly known to collectors long ago. The concept appears to have played little part in collecting until the late 20th century.

[MarkFeld]

On 3/3/2017 at 0:24 PM, WoodenJefferson said:

For now I will just assume that the entire coin was frosted and not just the devices with mirrored fields. Perhaps the dies were pickled which would impart the frosty appearance when struck.

Why would you make that assumption? There are many classic Proof coins - even from that era - with frosted devices, while I don't recall any with the appearance your described.

[WoodenJefferson]

16 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

Why would you make that assumption? There are many classic Proof coins - even from that era - with frosted devices, while I don't recall any with the appearance your described.

Well, the word 'specimen' triggered that response, did they call 'proof coins' back in 1839 like we do now?

[Conder101]

Actually i believe what we call proofs they called  "Master Coins".

[MarkFeld]

11 hours ago, WoodenJefferson said:

Well, the word 'specimen' triggered that response, did they call 'proof coins' back in 1839 like we do now?

I don't see what that would have to do with assuming the entire coin was frosted.

[WoodenJefferson]

11 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

I don't see what that would have to do with assuming the entire coin was frosted.

OK, you win, it was a 'frosted cameo master coin'

[MarkFeld]

15 minutes ago, WoodenJefferson said:

OK, you win, it was a 'frosted cameo master coin'

I'm not talking about what name one chooses to label the coin. I'm talking about your assumption that the entire coin - not just the devices - was frosted. Why would you assume that and have you ever seen a coin like that?

[WoodenJefferson]

I recuse myself from this topic because it's a matter of opinion and not that important that I have seen early seated liberty half dollars with such astounding booming luster across the entire coin, which by the way, make it appear that the entire die and planchet used were special, that somehow imparted a out of ordinary frostier look to them. Those coins were destined for commerce, but a keen eye and a sensibility that they were indeed the highest quality made by the Mint, were plucked from service and well cared for there after.