NGC Raw Submission Question ... Advice Needed!

[WingedLiberty1]

So I have about 5 raw toned coins that I am pretty sure should grade (that is they werent cooked -- at least not obviously so).

 

I was going to submit them all in a single submisison to NGC ... However I was wondering if that was a bad strategy ... that is, will NGC see 5 toners in a single sub and feel like cooking was going on? and penalize all of them by giving all Gen QC.

 

Would I bet better off submitting each coin in a separate submission? Which is a LOT more expensive (I think $40 extra per coin or $200 more spent). Although will they know that these 5 sequential subs are all from me? Maybe I will be spending a lot of extra $$ for no reason.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[comicdonna]

I would do a single submission. The outcome isn't going to change.

[physics-fan3.14]

Post pictures of the coins you want to submit. We can help pre-screen if anything looks funky.

 

If they are genuine, natural toning, you will have no problems at all on the same submission.

[Raisethis2]

I agree. If they are genuine I'm sure they grade no matter how they are submitted.

[RWB]

Method of submission should have no effect - each coin is evaluated independently. However, you would be very wise to have them pre-screened by someone very knowledgeable in "toned" coins. The proportion of falsely "toned" coins is quite large and growing due in part to individual greed, ignorance, and the failure of ANA and other hobby organizations to exercise appropriate ethical values for these and other altered and counterfeit coins.

[MarkFeld]

I was under the impression that you knew enough about coins, toning and submissions, such that you would also know it would be pure folly to ask for opinions witnout providing images.

[bochiman]

Along with the image request by Mark, I would ask, until they may appear, if the toning appears to be the same on all the coins?

 

If so, they will likely appear to be AT to the graders.

 

If the toning looks legit to you AND they aren't 5 coins that look the exact same with the toning looking the exact same, then you will likely be ok.

[MarkFeld]

Along with the image request by Mark, I would ask, until they may appear, if the toning appears to be the same on all the coins?

 

If so, they will likely appear to be AT to the graders.

 

If the toning looks legit to you AND they aren't 5 coins that look the exact same with the toning looking the exact same, then you will likely be ok.

 

Ron, you misunderstood my post. I wasn't requesting images, but rather, pointing out the folly of not posting them.

 

Also, even if the coins looks very similar, depending on that look, they could still be submitted together and turn out fine. There are many examples where original looking coins that look very similar, appear to be from the same source and which do not fall under suspicion. As just one example, you have probably seen some of the fabulous, distinctive 1939-D Mercury dimes graded MS68FB or higher.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Along with the image request by Mark, I would ask, until they may appear, if the toning appears to be the same on all the coins?

 

If so, they will likely appear to be AT to the graders.

 

If the toning looks legit to you AND they aren't 5 coins that look the exact same with the toning looking the exact same, then you will likely be ok.

 

Ron, you misunderstood my post. I wasn't requesting images, but rather, pointing out the folly of not posting them.

 

Also, even if the coins looks very similar, depending on that look, they could still be submitted together and turn out fine. There are many examples where original looking coins that look very similar, appear to be from the same source and which do not fall under suspicion. As just one example, you have probably seen some of the fabulous, distinctive 1939-D Mercury dimes graded MS68FB or higher.

 

I don't understand why it is a folly not to post images. The OP is not asking for opinions of whether the coins are or are not NT. The OP has always seemed, to me, to be well versed and knowledgeable, and familiar with toning, and has determined that the coins are NT, in his opinion.

 

The OP is seeking opinions concerning the quantity submission scale, and has logically (in my opinion), identified a possible quandary, in that the graders (there is more than one that will look at the coins) will be viewing the coins in total, and the OP is questioning whether or not it is better to submit separately to avoid a familiarity breeds contempt theory (that may or may not exist) or submit together, and possibly triggering the familiarity breeds contempt theory. It is a very intriguing question, in that different graders will view colors differently, and view eye appeal differently, and will approach market vs. technical aspects differently, and will view "value added" toning differently. However, this assumes that the coins will be viewed at the same time, which is not known. maybe you cane be of valuable assistance in opining on just that question, in order to assist the OP in the final choice of the familiarity quandary.

 

I do think the logical answer could be found in your last paragraph gives the guidance sort, at least in setting aside any possible enhanced anxiety that the OP may have concerning submitting the pieces together.

 

The OP has a logical 50/50 opportunity, in that more than one grader will be deciding ( I assume unless there is some in -house rule that only one person grades toned coins because this one grader is perceived as possessing infallibility, which is very illogical). If there is a split decision, and a 3rd grader calls the ball, it is still a 50/50 opportunity.

 

All things being equal in the game of chance, it becomes an opportunity lost (in my opinion) to not submit together, because the opportunity lost will be saving money on the submission...which is money that can be used for any re-submission should the desired outcome not be achieved on the first submission.

 

I don't perceive a downside to submitting together. Then again, I am usually very wrong and sometimes a stick is just a stick, and a logic approach is dumb. I freely admit to my tendency to ignore the stick and see a tree much to often.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Method of submission should have no effect - each coin is evaluated independently. However, you would be very wise to have them pre-screened by someone very knowledgeable in "toned" coins. The proportion of falsely "toned" coins is quite large and growing due in part to individual greed, ignorance, and the failure of ANA and other hobby organizations to exercise appropriate ethical values for these and other altered and counterfeit coins.

 

In my opinion, being very knowledgeable in toned coins is a very wide and very long playing field, especially when the choice is a close decision type, and the variety of correct opinions would fill the playing field and still not reach the goal. If there was a sure method of opinion of AT/NT, there would not be a classification of questionable toning. The OP is most likely as knowledgeable as and other knowledgeable person that would pre-screen the coins. There are a high percentage of coins that have been crowned as NT that have just as many toning knowledgeable persons opining the coins are AT. It is opinion. It is 50/50.

[MarkFeld]

Along with the image request by Mark, I would ask, until they may appear, if the toning appears to be the same on all the coins?

 

If so, they will likely appear to be AT to the graders.

 

If the toning looks legit to you AND they aren't 5 coins that look the exact same with the toning looking the exact same, then you will likely be ok.

 

Ron, you misunderstood my post. I wasn't requesting images, but rather, pointing out the folly of not posting them.

 

Also, even if the coins looks very similar, depending on that look, they could still be submitted together and turn out fine. There are many examples where original looking coins that look very similar, appear to be from the same source and which do not fall under suspicion. As just one example, you have probably seen some of the fabulous, distinctive 1939-D Mercury dimes graded MS68FB or higher.

 

I don't understand why it is a folly not to post images. The OP is not asking for opinions of whether the coins are or are not NT. The OP has always seemed, to me, to be well versed and knowledgeable, and familiar with toning, and has determined that the coins are NT, in his opinion.

 

The OP is seeking opinions concerning the quantity submission scale, and has logically (in my opinion), identified a possible quandary, in that the graders (there is more than one that will look at the coins) will be viewing the coins in total, and the OP is questioning whether or not it is better to submit separately to avoid a familiarity breeds contempt theory (that may or may not exist) or submit together, and possibly triggering the familiarity breeds contempt theory. It is a very intriguing question, in that different graders will view colors differently, and view eye appeal differently, and will approach market vs. technical aspects differently, and will view "value added" toning differently. However, this assumes that the coins will be viewed at the same time, which is not known. maybe you cane be of valuable assistance in opining on just that question, in order to assist the OP in the final choice of the familiarity quandary.

 

I do think the logical answer could be found in your last paragraph gives the guidance sort, at least in setting aside any possible enhanced anxiety that the OP may have concerning submitting the pieces together.

 

The OP has a logical 50/50 opportunity, in that more than one grader will be deciding ( I assume unless there is some in -house rule that only one person grades toned coins because this one grader is perceived as possessing infallibility, which is very illogical). If there is a split decision, and a 3rd grader calls the ball, it is still a 50/50 opportunity.

 

All things being equal in the game of chance, it becomes an opportunity lost (in my opinion) to not submit together, because the opportunity lost will be saving money on the submission...which is money that can be used for any re-submission should the desired outcome not be achieved on the first submission.

 

I don't perceive a downside to submitting together. Then again, I am usually very wrong and sometimes a stick is just a stick, and a logic approach is dumb. I freely admit to my tendency to ignore the stick and see a tree much to often.

 

John, you concluded with "I don't perceive a downside to submitting together.....". I believe there is a chance you might feel differently, were you to see images of the coins. But even if not, others here might provide different/more helpful feedback with images, than they would without them.

 

Regardless, as for myself, I see no way to provide a meaningful suggestion regarding their submission, without knowing what they look like.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Along with the image request by Mark, I would ask, until they may appear, if the toning appears to be the same on all the coins?

 

If so, they will likely appear to be AT to the graders.

 

If the toning looks legit to you AND they aren't 5 coins that look the exact same with the toning looking the exact same, then you will likely be ok.

 

Ron, you misunderstood my post. I wasn't requesting images, but rather, pointing out the folly of not posting them.

 

Also, even if the coins looks very similar, depending on that look, they could still be submitted together and turn out fine. There are many examples where original looking coins that look very similar, appear to be from the same source and which do not fall under suspicion. As just one example, you have probably seen some of the fabulous, distinctive 1939-D Mercury dimes graded MS68FB or higher.

 

 

 

I don't understand why it is a folly not to post images. The OP is not asking for opinions of whether the coins are or are not NT. The OP has always seemed, to me, to be well versed and knowledgeable, and familiar with toning, and has determined that the coins are NT, in his opinion.

 

The OP is seeking opinions concerning the quantity submission scale, and has logically (in my opinion), identified a possible quandary, in that the graders (there is more than one that will look at the coins) will be viewing the coins in total, and the OP is questioning whether or not it is better to submit separately to avoid a familiarity breeds contempt theory (that may or may not exist) or submit together, and possibly triggering the familiarity breeds contempt theory. It is a very intriguing question, in that different graders will view colors differently, and view eye appeal differently, and will approach market vs. technical aspects differently, and will view "value added" toning differently. However, this assumes that the coins will be viewed at the same time, which is not known. maybe you cane be of valuable assistance in opining on just that question, in order to assist the OP in the final choice of the familiarity quandary.

 

I do think the logical answer could be found in your last paragraph gives the guidance sort, at least in setting aside any possible enhanced anxiety that the OP may have concerning submitting the pieces together.

 

The OP has a logical 50/50 opportunity, in that more than one grader will be deciding ( I assume unless there is some in -house rule that only one person grades toned coins because this one grader is perceived as possessing infallibility, which is very illogical). If there is a split decision, and a 3rd grader calls the ball, it is still a 50/50 opportunity.

 

All things being equal in the game of chance, it becomes an opportunity lost (in my opinion) to not submit together, because the opportunity lost will be saving money on the submission...which is money that can be used for any re-submission should the desired outcome not be achieved on the first submission.

 

I don't perceive a downside to submitting together. Then again, I am usually very wrong and sometimes a stick is just a stick, and a logic approach is dumb. I freely admit to my tendency to ignore the stick and see a tree much to often.

 

John, you concluded with "I don't perceive a downside to submitting together.....". I believe there is a chance you might feel differently, were you to see images of the coins. Regardless, as for myself, I see no way to provide a meaningful suggestion regarding their submission, without knowing what they look like.

 

I might, if the purpose of the OP post was to seek opinions of AT vs. NT. It wasn't, or more correctly it was not stated that was the purpose. Then again, I would never give an opinion based on images. I have stated this over and over.

 

Correct, I do not perceive a downside, given the stated information and applying logic. It is rendered to a game of chance. If the OP is not familiar with toning and knowledgeable enough to eliminate questionable toning, then he is entering a game of chance with the odds still 50/50.

 

So, it becomes a choice of opportunity gained or lost, i.e. the cost of submission.

 

There is enough information presented (the OP is very confident the pieces are not AT), and certainly with your experience, to be of assistance in addressing the question asked, better to submit at one time or not. It is not folly to have not posted the coins, and it is not folly to assist with known information based on personal experience...in that you were a grader, and you have been intimately involved and to some degree continue to be involved with the grading process. I believe you already gave an answer, in the last paragraph of your last post, i.e. there are enough examples of submitting together that do not trigger suspicion. That is the type of information the OP seeks, and is hopefully helpful in the decision making process.