A Few Questions

[USAuPzlBxBob]

1) What does the grade PRAG stand for? It appears to be the lowest NGC Registry column.

 

I noticed (ATS) the collection known as "The Worlds Worst Gold Type Set." It seems to be owned by one Ian Russel, and he takes it to shows, it seems, to let people see it. It is a 12 coin US Gold Type Set beginning after the US Gold Classic Heads. The coins are so "rubbed" that they almost defy identification. You might be hard pressed to make out a date on some of them.

 

2) Could Gold coins like these receive an NCG grade and encapsulation without the "Details" kiss of death? That is, become slabbed with just a very poor grade?

 

3) And if you had gold coins of such poor quality, could they be "fingerprinted up," you know, handled after eating potato chips, for example, and then washed with soap and water, and then sent in for grading at NGC, and get a very poor grade, as mentioned above?

 

Thx.

 

Bob

[thebeav]

Hi Bob,

 

I don't know the answer to your question number 1, but I can answer 2 and 3.

Yes, a coin can be so 'worn' that and still get graded. Most hope to get a grade of "Poor 1", as opposed to a "Fair 2". These are the so called low-ball coins. Any cleaning would disqualify the coin from being graded (other than net graded). It isn't always easy to get a 1 or 2 grade for this reason.

 

Paul

[MarkFeld]

Hi Bob,

 

I don't know the answer to your question number 1, but I can answer 2 and 3.

Yes, a coin can be so 'worn' that and still get graded. Most hope to get a grade of "Poor 1", as opposed to a "Fair 2". These are the so called low-ball coins. Any cleaning would disqualify the coin from being graded (other than net graded). It isn't always easy to get a 1 or 2 grade for this reason.

 

Paul

 

 

I would change "any cleaning" to "any cleaning that the grading company thinks is too severe", as many cleaned coins are graded, without receiving "details grades".

[CaptHenway]

Not familiar with the term "PRAG," but assume it to mean a Proof coin (identifiable as such because it was a Proof-only issue or by a distinguishing die variety) in AG condition.

TD

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Not familiar with the term "PRAG," but assume it to mean a Proof coin (identifiable as such because it was a Proof-only issue or by a distinguishing die variety) in AG condition.

TD

 

Yes.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

This is how the Registry Columns look. See the PRAG at the start?

 

PRAG G VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 TOTAL

[MarkFeld]

This is how the Registry Columns look. See the PRAG at the start?

 

PRAG G VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 TOTAL

 

That makes me think "PRAG" might be "Poor" and "AG" missing a space between them. But if so, I wonder where "Fair" is.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

This is how the Registry Columns look. See the PRAG at the start?

 

PRAG G VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 TOTAL

 

That makes me think "PRAG" might be "Poor" and "AG" missing a space between them. But if so, I wonder where "Fair" is.

 

I asked at a show once. I was told it meant Proof. I am not certain how it could be identified as such, I don't know the series to know whether there is an identifier in a worn state that would be confirmation.

 

I lean toward your observation as the more logical explanation. Then again, why start with letter grades and then switch to numbered grades....that is a bigger question. I guess it is a Registry thing, or laziness or lack of column space. Who knows.

[RWB]

"PRAG" is a rare species of alpine antelope similar to a chamois but distinctly separate as a species. The female prag is called a prinn and a male is called a prang. Young are called fawns but only in the afternoon.

[BillJones]

I have never understood the "low ball," poorest known collection concept. I have labored all of my collecting life to avoid such things. To seek them out, let alone pay a huge premium for them, is beyond my understanding.

[MarkFeld]

I have never understood the "low ball," poorest known collection concept. I have labored all of my collecting life to avoid such things. To seek them out, let alone pay a huge premium for them, is beyond my understanding.

 

That's not a collecting choice I'd pursue, but it's one which I can certainly understand. It presents a supreme challenge and offers participants a means to distinguish themselves and their collections. Also, despite the premiums paid, it's still generally far more affordable than pursuing top grade examples, instead.

 

And some such coins are very cool looking.

[asdfgh]

Its kind of like trying to buy the worst chevy in the country. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[BillJones]

I have never understood the "low ball," poorest known collection concept. I have labored all of my collecting life to avoid such things. To seek them out, let alone pay a huge premium for them, is beyond my understanding.

 

That's not a collecting choice I'd pursue, but it's one which I can certainly understand. It presents a supreme challenge and offers participants a means to distinguish themselves and their collections. Also, despite the premiums paid, it's still generally far more affordable than pursuing top grade examples, instead.

 

And some such coins are very cool looking.

 

The only very low grade coins that I found to be "cool looking" are the very low grade commemorative coins that a couple of dealers collected back in the 1990s.

[physics-fan3.14]

This is how the Registry Columns look. See the PRAG at the start?

 

PRAG G VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 TOTAL

 

That makes me think "PRAG" might be "Poor" and "AG" missing a space between them. But if so, I wonder where "Fair" is.

 

PrAG is not a grade, and it definitely does not mean Proof. It is a catchall for the lowest graded coins - Pr - AG. The grading scale is

 

Pr-1

Fr-2

AG-3

 

In the NGC price guide, these lowest grades are all lumped together because very few coins are graded this low, and the price difference between them is trivial for all except the very rarest coins.

 

Side note: NGC uses PF for proof coins, not Pr. Pr is Poor-1, PF is proof. There is a reason for this distinction.

[MarkFeld]

This is how the Registry Columns look. See the PRAG at the start?

 

PRAG G VG F VF 40 45 50 53 55 58 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 TOTAL

 

That makes me think "PRAG" might be "Poor" and "AG" missing a space between them. But if so, I wonder where "Fair" is.

 

PrAG is not a grade, and it definitely does not mean Proof. It is a catchall for the lowest graded coins - Pr - AG. The grading scale is

 

Pr-1

Fr-2

AG-3

 

In the NGC price guide, these lowest grades are all lumped together because very few coins are graded this low, and the price difference between them is trivial for all except the very rarest coins.

 

Side note: NGC uses PF for proof coins, not Pr. Pr is Poor-1, PF is proof. There is a reason for this distinction.

 

Thanks.

[orifdoc]

Here's some PRAG for you, just for fun. See if you can spot the label error:

 

 

 

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Top coin should be PR01?

 

Nice examples!

 

Thank you.

[CaptHenway]

Top coin should be PR01?

 

Nice examples!

 

Thank you.

 

Some people use "PO" to abbreviate "Poor" to avoid confusion with the "PR" sometimes used to abbreviate "Proof." I use "PF" to abbreviate "Proof" to avoid confusion.

[physics-fan3.14]

Top coin should be PR01?

 

Nice examples!

 

Thank you.

 

Some people use "PO" to abbreviate "Poor" to avoid confusion with the "PR" sometimes used to abbreviate "Proof." I use "PF" to abbreviate "Proof" to avoid confusion.

 

NGC and PCGS do it slightly differently:

 

NGC uses PR for poor and PF for proof.

 

PCGS uses PO for poor and PR for proof.

 

 

[Conder101]

The Fr-2 is a 22-S not a 22-P

[USAuPzlBxBob]

I would never have gotten that, but I can see your point, or rather, "s."

 

Sorry, couldn't find a smaller image.

 

Here's some PRAG for you, just for fun. See if you can spot the label error:

 

 

[orifdoc]

Yup. You got it: