What do I do now?

[AYA3]

Finally had my Earlybird" submission in my mailbox today 4/7, it was recieved by NGC on 2/28. Seemed to take forever, but it was only 11 coins. I have a question about what should I do (or who to call) when there are a couple of very obvious oversights (even after 6 days in quality control). One of the Walkers is labeled 1942-S MS61. Although I totally disagree with the grade (no marks in fields, full skirt lines, and detailed hand) what is most obvious is the coin is a 1942-D. Another is a 1938-D/S OMM-1 buffalo I removed from ANACS slab so I would have it in NGC holder. It did recieve the expected grade (64) but nothing about being OMM-1. Do I need to send them back in for regrade and have to pay for their QC oversights? Thanks in advance for the guidance.

 

Andy

[gmarguli]

You're assured to get a response from NGC if you post this in the Ask NGC forum. This may or may not be seen here.

 

The mislabeled date can be sent back as a Mechanical Error and they will fix this for free.

 

The 1938-D/S 5c is another question. I'm not sure which OMM NGC recognizes. It is possible that they do not recognize this one. Also, did you list D/S on the submission form under the variety box?

[AYA3]

Thanks for the tips. I will probably go ahead and put it on the Ask NGC board. On the D/S buffalo - I did not list it as a variety, but I did call them before I submitted the order. I was told that they automatically checked for this variety on 1938 buffalo nickels and that it didn't need to be listed on submission form.

 

Andy

[Hoot]

All of the 38-D/S OMMs are listed as D/S on the insert label. They do not distinguish them with the exception that if you have OMM 1, they will attribute it as FS-020.5 if you pay the Variety Plus fee. It's definitely the best of the four known D/S OMM varieties.

 

Hoot

[BankNote1]

I thought that you had to pay the variety plus fee to get the "D/S" on the coin holder? OMM-1 and I think that the OMM-2 will get the "D/S" if you pay the fee. I thought you only got the FS-020.5 if you have a OMM-1 EDS?

Hoot; Am I all wet? Maybe just confused a little?

 

I did pick up a OMM-5 to go with my OMM-1(LDS) and OMM-4!

[Hoot]

Banknote - You're all wet. The D/S designation does not require the Variety Plus fee. The Cherrypicker's designation (FS 022.5) for OMM 1 does.

 

Dave Lange once told me to be sure to note that the coin is D/S on the submission form, but that should be adequate to have the insert show 1938-D/S. Only if you have the strongly recognizable D/D/D/S of OMM 1 should you bother to ask for the Variety Plus service, as it's the only one listed in the CP guide.

 

Hoot

[BankNote1]

NGC needs a guide to tell you what to do on this stuff. Some stuff you need the variety plus and some stuff you don't. Some stuff they recognize and some stuff they don't. It all makes my head hurt!

You must need to use the variety plus to get the D/D though. I have seen many many D/D's that wern't marked on the holder! On the D/D NGC only recognizes the RPM-2 and RPM-3 right?? Then I might have messed this up as well!

Just going by the Cherry Pickers Guide on variety Buffalo nickels is leaving out many great varieties.IMO. Maybe that is what ANACS is for.

[gmarguli]

NGC needs a guide to tell you what to do on this stuff. Some stuff you need the variety plus and some stuff you don't. Some stuff they recognize and some stuff they don't. It all makes my head hurt!

 

NGC does have a guide for this stuff. It's called Understanding and Using NGC's VarietyPlus Service.

[BankNote1]

Greg, No where in that guide(that I can find) does it tell you that you don't have to use variety plus for the 1938 D/S Buff. or which "other" varieties that they do recognize! IMO, the NGC guide is next to useless!

[Hoot]

The assumption that NGC is making is that a submitter will consult the guides that they list in thier guide to attribution before submitting. A master list would be useful, but many people would simply be lost with the list, so it seems to be a no-win situation.

 

BTW, there is not a D/D listed in the CP guide, so unless the CP update contains one, then there is no reason to pay for a Variety Plus service to get the D/D listedon the insert label. Just like the D/S, NGC will place that on the label for any of the D/D RPM pieces that they are alerted to and/or notice.

 

Also, having the D/D in the registry is a mistake. It is an unremarkable variety, albeit popular, especially compared to others that are much more highly sought by collectors. Have a look at the 1936-S/S sometime (FS -020) and it makes the D/D varieties look silly.

 

Hoot

[BankNote1]

Hoot IMO, a master list is needed and I see it as a win win if NGC would print one. There must be a master list somewhere!?

 

As far as the 1938 D/D goes; The D/D sells for more than a 1938-D of the same grade when D/D is on the label! Why wouldn't I buy a D/D?

Hoot, there are also 1938D/D varieties that NGC will NOT recognize. Also NGC will NOT recognize all the '38 OMM D/S varieties either. There are six according to the Wexler book! The 1938 OMM #'S 5 and 6 are much rarer than OMM-1. Heck if I have to use a 10X or better glass to see them anyway. Why would I have an interest in just one and not the others?

I know the registery drives everything and it is plain silly. But if the registery was the only reason to ever buy a coin (Buffalo nickel) then why buy NGC graded coins in the first place? PCGS Buffalos have more value than NGC pieces of the same grade, and in many instances more than double the NGC coins. Just look at the Blue Sheet!

 

I buy mostly NGC Buffalo nickels just because they are a bargin when compaired to a PCGS graded coin. I have found that asking before sending a coin into NGC can save me money! The only bad thing is I end up with some very nice and rare coins in ANACS holders just because NGC wants to play a silly game with what they will slab as a variety and what they wont!

[supertooth]

Well, for what it is worth, I want NGC to publish a "master" list of varieties that they will slab. About 2 years ago, I sent in a 1918-D Walker to be graded. I sent them the "extra" bucks to have the coin"s holder say "No AW". I figured it was not a problem. Well, I got the coin graded and slabbed, but did not get the "NO AW"-----because it is not listed in CP or Red Book. Needless to say, NGC kept my "extra" bucks. So I wrote and Mr. David Lange was kind enough to reply to me.He acknowledged the variety but NGC was just not going to take MR. Breen"s word for it. I pointed out that, if they had put the coin into a holder and graded it, NGC had indeed said that the variety existed. So why not put it on the holder? No go. So for 2 years I have had it upset me in the back of my mind. Even Bruce Fox"s book has the variety listed for both the 18D and the 29S. NGC gives Mr. Fox"s book as its only reference book under Walkers----besides the Red Book and CP.

Now, I would rather have my coins in an NGC holder. I would "never" submit a coin to PCGS. But I have let ANACS grade simply because they will issue the "varieties" better than NGC. The 1918D is an example---as of Oct.2004, ANACS had slabbed a total of 76 coins as being without the AW. But my coin still sits in its NGC slab.

So, I encourage NGC to make a "Master List" and put it out there for us collectors. I also encourage them to expand that list where doing so does not create any problems [like the 1918D--No Aw]. It would allow NGC to make more money. Guys would use them and not ANACS. And it would surely eliminate a lot of confusion as to what NGC would slab as opposed to what it will not put on the holder. Also it would then be no need for threads like these. Bob [supertooth]

[TomB]

It's good to "see" you here, supertooth!

 

I agree with those who write that there should be some easily accessible master list, for submitters of coins, which shows the varieties that NGC will recognize on their holder. This could simply be a pdf file that gets updated every quarter and that one could download from the site. I don't know if something like this already exists, but it would be great for customer service.

[Hoot]

In essence (and not to defend NGC), the references that NGC cites are their "master list." But I agree that a simple expansive list would be useful to some. Even so, there would always be varieties that would get left off. And if one were to include all of the doubled die and RPM references out there, the list would get unwieldy. Or maybe I'm wrong. ANACS has certainly done a "masterful" job at attributing varieties. Since ANACS has been shaken up a bit lately, this might be the opportune time for NGC to come around.

 

Hoot

[BankNote1]

As Hoot says:

ANACS has certainly done a "masterful" job at attributing varieties.

NGC is the better service all around. How hard could it be to "at least" let the rest of us in on the secret? It would be nice to have all my coins in the same "SIZE" holder for a change. NGC must have a list that the graders go by on checking varieties, right!?