Peace $ Newp

[TonerGuy]

Came in today. Pictures make it look horrible. Awesome coin. Will try my best to improve pics.

 

Conundrum Will be crossing it to NGC.

 

Give it shot. And good luck !

[mumu]

Came in today. Pictures make it look horrible. Awesome coin. Will try my best to improve pics.

 

Conundrum Will be crossing it to NGC.

 

Give it shot. And good luck !

 

I would in a heartbeat if I didn't have to crack it out. I am pretty sure it is better than a 62 as well.

[coinman_23885]

Came in today. Pictures make it look horrible. Awesome coin. Will try my best to improve pics.

 

Conundrum Will be crossing it to NGC.

 

Give it shot. And good luck !

 

NGC effectively only accepts crossovers from PCGS. Anything else and you must crack the coin out or authorize NGC to do the same and it is treated as raw. It is very risky. It was also a factor in why I hadn't snapped this coin up over the years. Mumu, I know this is a long shot, but send a message to NGC or post to the "Ask NGC" forum and see if they will make an exception for you.

[mumu]

Came in today. Pictures make it look horrible. Awesome coin. Will try my best to improve pics.

 

Conundrum Will be crossing it to NGC.

 

Give it shot. And good luck !

 

NGC effectively only accepts crossovers from PCGS. Anything else and you must crack the coin out or authorize NGC to do the same and it is treated as raw. It is very risky. It was also a factor in why I hadn't snapped this coin up over the years. Mumu, I know this is a long shot, but send a message to NGC or post to the "Ask NGC" forum and see if they will make an exception for you.

 

That was actually my plan. Going to do it in private so there isn't a public record of them making exceptions that will trigger thousands of requests for common coins. With the rarity of PL Peace dollars I would hope they would take that into consideration. Having the coin in hand now I would say I feel it is a lock. But with only 2 PL P$ out there, having not seen one they consider a PL, it still feels risky.

[TonerGuy]

I now about NGC's policy...

 

Have some b*lls and send it raw. Worse case it gets a star and not a PL and people will still buy it from you because - hey its the coin and not the slab they are buying.

[mumu]

I now about NGC's policy...

 

Have some b*lls and send it raw. Worse case it gets a star and not a PL and people will still buy it from you because - hey its the coin and not the slab they are buying.

 

After seeing it in hand I now have more confidence that I would consider a raw submission if I had to. My concern when I first saw this coin many years ago was that it might be cleaned a certain way to make it look PL and it snuck by a new grader or something. But a few people have now seen it in hand including myself and that is definitely not the case. Still, as a small fish collector, a $1500 hit on a crack out would sting. As it stands it is the 2nd most expensive coin I have purchased, the first being an 1805 half.

[TonerGuy]

I dont think you would lose any money on that coin going from a PL ANACS holder to a * NGC holder.

 

No matter the holder its a rare and unusual coin. And imagine if it got into a NGC PL holder ?

 

Do it as a walk-through at a major show. Pay the ticket and you just may get the upgrade...

[dragon]

Not sure which is the coin in question here, but I'm guessing it's a Peace dollar that has PL characteristics and the owner is considering sending it to NGC for a PL designation.

 

 

If that's the case, one word of caution........the services for reasons known only to them are now very tight and borderline ridiculous on designating coins PL, and in my recent experiences a coin (Morgan dollar) now has to be a lock DPL in the old days just to barely get a PL now, and if it's just a normal run of the mill PL, forget it, no dice.

[mumu]

Not sure which is the coin in question here, but I'm guessing it's a Peace dollar that has PL characteristics and the owner is considering sending it to NGC for a PL designation.

 

 

If that's the case, one word of caution........the services for reasons known only to them are now very tight and borderline ridiculous on designating coins PL, and in my recent experiences a coin (Morgan dollar) now has to be a lock DPL in the old days just to barely get a PL now, and if it's just a normal run of the mill PL, forget it, no dice.

 

Its the peace $ in the op. Its already in an anacs PL holder.

[dragon]

Oh.....I'm not seeing a pic of a Peace dollar in the op on my computer.

[mumu]

Oh.....I'm not seeing a pic of a Peace dollar in the op on my computer.

 

Theres 2 pics in the first post. Others seem to see it. Can you see a pic in post 6?

[A.Phillips]

I now about NGC's policy...

 

Have some b*lls and send it raw. Worse case it gets a star and not a PL and people will still buy it from you because - hey its the coin and not the slab they are buying.

 

 

There are 3 types of buyer: 1) Buyer buying because he/she likes the coin; 2) Buyer buying the slab; and 3) Buyer buying the slab with bean.

[mumu]

I now about NGC's policy...

 

Have some b*lls and send it raw. Worse case it gets a star and not a PL and people will still buy it from you because - hey its the coin and not the slab they are buying.

 

 

There are 3 types of buyer: 1) Buyer buying because he/she likes the coin; 2) Buyer buying the slab; and 3) Buyer buying the slab with bean.

 

It's not always that black and white. While I am a collector and would have no problem having this coin in the anacs slab forever, reality is interests change, hobbies change, emergencies come up. And you cannot ignore the investment side of this hobby. It is there and it cant be ignored. I wish ever coin I liked cost 1$ and I would be fine getting 1$ back. But often times it takes some financial sacrifice staying in this hobby, unless you are one of the millionaires out there. So IMO a wise collector will do their best to at least get their money back and if possible do better. I might lose interest in P$ one day and this coin in a an NGC PL 64 holder would fund a lot of other purchases.

[jerseycat10]

The solution is very simple, and has been mentioned. Go to a major show that NGC is attending, and ask an on-site grader, if possible, what he/she thinks. Best case scenario, they'll cross it right there, onsite. I know NGC doesn't take ANACS crossovers, but perhaps they'll make an exception for an interesting coin like this, onsite.

[BROADSTRUCK]

I would not crack this coin as it's been for sale since 2005 and if anyone during that time thought it had a chance to PL at NGC it would no longer be in the ANACS holder. The risk is far too great as having seen it in hand raw it might go into a details holder instead of the PL straight graded your hoping for.

[mumu]

I would not crack this coin as it's been for sale since 2005 and if anyone during that time thought it had a chance to PL at NGC it would no longer be in the ANACS holder. The risk is far too great as having seen it in hand raw it might go into a details holder instead of the PL straight graded your hoping for.

 

You saw the coin before it went into the white anacs slab? What problems do you specifically remember seeing on it to make you think details? The coin seems problem free to me. The PL qualities of the coin are not the die file lines seen on many semi PL coins which could hide surface hairines. It is purely reflective, granted not to that degree, as the icy morgan fields. The coin also has a sheen of golden toning with some edge rainbow coloring as well. If anything is keeping it from grading PL I think its this toning it has which hides some of the reflectivity.

 

The pictures also make the coin look really beat up and its not. I think it is reflecting something that makes it look much worse. I will eventually get it photographed.

 

I am not discounting your assessment just offering my opinion.

[mumu]

Here's an HD video of the coin. In chrome you can up it to full 1080p HD

 

[mumu]

And best I can do in pics with a phone under a terser light.

 

[dragon]

Oh.....I'm not seeing a pic of a Peace dollar in the op on my computer.

 

Theres 2 pics in the first post. Others seem to see it. Can you see a pic in post 6?

 

 

 

 

 

Nope, not seeing pics in the post #1 or post #6, just blue squares. That's a shame because now I'm interested in seeing this PL Peace dollar.

[mumu]

Oh.....I'm not seeing a pic of a Peace dollar in the op on my computer.

 

Theres 2 pics in the first post. Others seem to see it. Can you see a pic in post 6?

 

 

 

 

 

Nope, not seeing pics in the post #1 or post #6, just blue squares. That's a shame because now I'm interested in seeing this PL Peace dollar.

 

Must be something on your end as it seems everyone else is seeing it. Check the video I posted on youtube, that should work.

[RWB]

It's unclear what you expect to gain by having the coin re-slabbed and losing the questionable "PL" designation. The coin is a typical low-end Unc and MS62 seems appropriate based on the photos and video.

[mumu]

Some people care about financial gain. Even as a pure collector it would be foolish not too. I appreciate your grassroots stand against the system. I really do. But as long as other people care about slabs, even purists will have to care to some degree. I think stocks and bonds are a scam. But that's what our financial system is. I'm not going to run off into the woods and hunt rabbits to avoid it.

[physics-fan3.14]

I dont know PL coins and with that said.... All I can add is that from the photos, PF's 23 and Jersey's 22-D seem to have PL tendencies... I just dont see the frostiness that I think of when it comes to proof-like on the other coins.

 

Mumu I hope that coin is much better in hand than the photos. Good luck!

 

I think you might have meant to use a different noun other than "frostiness." Mint frost in the fields is an excellent indication that the coin is not fully prooflike. If you meant cameo contrasts on the devices, these are also not considered in awarding a PL or DPL designation although the enhanced eye appeal may garner a star. The determination of whether it is PL or not is whether the fields have the requisite amount of reflectivity. It is all about the depth of the mirrors.

 

People often confuse the "cameo contrast" with "prooflike," probably because Morgan dollar prooflikes often have cameo contrast (the most attractive, highest premium Morgan's have black and white contrast, just like a DCAM proof). However, the Prooflike standard is based on the reflectivity of the fields - the devices have no bearing on this. If you look at my registry set, you'll see plenty of coins with some cameo, and plenty without. It is solely based on the fields. Depending on the era, the PL effect could be made differently - modern PLs are completely brilliant and mirrored across the entire coin.

 

I dont think you would lose any money on that coin going from a PL ANACS holder to a * NGC holder.

 

No matter the holder its a rare and unusual coin. And imagine if it got into a NGC PL holder ?

 

Do it as a walk-through at a major show. Pay the ticket and you just may get the upgrade...

 

There was already a very strong premium attached to the coin. Crossing it to NGC in anything less than a PL could be disastrous to the value.

 

Here's an HD video of the coin. In chrome you can up it to full 1080p HD

 

 

Wow, that coin looks much better in that video than the Ebay sellers pictures indicated. The obverse mirrors are quite strong (much better than any of the Star coins I've seen). The reverse mirrors don't appear quite as strong, and may hold you back from a full PL. Again, this is from looking at the video - in hand, they might be good enough to qualify.

 

It's unclear what you expect to gain by having the coin re-slabbed and losing the questionable "PL" designation. The coin is a typical low-end Unc and MS62 seems appropriate based on the photos and video.

 

The answer is simple: as it is, he has a coin which he paid $XXXX for (I have a rough guess of the number, but it is not for me to share).

 

If he crosses it to NGC and it only gets the Star, he has a coin which most collectors will pay a couple hundred for, dedicated collectors may pay a few hundred.

 

If he crosses it to NGC and it gets the PL, he has a coin which he could put in any major auction and triple his money.

 

Its a gamble. The coin is the same, and attractive at that, but (some) collectors care about the plastic.

[mumu]

The ebay auction is public record, It was $1470

[RWB]

What I meant was that by having it reslabbed, you would loose the "PL" designation....Seems to me that would reduce the market value.

 

Not real fond of rabbit hunting -- takes too long to chop 'em into Bunny Bits!

[mumu]

 

Wow, that coin looks much better in that video than the Ebay sellers pictures indicated. The obverse mirrors are quite strong (much better than any of the Star coins I've seen). The reverse mirrors don't appear quite as strong, and may hold you back from a full PL. Again, this is from looking at the video - in hand, they might be good enough to qualify.

 

 

The reverse mirrors are there as well. The phone was having a tough time focusing with the terser light. You can see an occasional glimpse. I mentioned there is a light sheen of golden toning that made focusing tough especially on the reverse where the rays break the open fields up. Its a really nice coin. I don't think it would go 64 but I think it might be 63. Sellers pics make it look really beat up but once in hand and the mirrors kick in the coin does not look as beat up as the pics at all. Just very hard to photograph.

[jerseycat10]

I dont know PL coins and with that said.... All I can add is that from the photos, PF's 23 and Jersey's 22-D seem to have PL tendencies... I just dont see the frostiness that I think of when it comes to proof-like on the other coins.

 

Mumu I hope that coin is much better in hand than the photos. Good luck!

 

I think you might have meant to use a different noun other than "frostiness." Mint frost in the fields is an excellent indication that the coin is not fully prooflike. If you meant cameo contrasts on the devices, these are also not considered in awarding a PL or DPL designation although the enhanced eye appeal may garner a star. The determination of whether it is PL or not is whether the fields have the requisite amount of reflectivity. It is all about the depth of the mirrors.

 

People often confuse the "cameo contrast" with "prooflike," probably because Morgan dollar prooflikes often have cameo contrast (the most attractive, highest premium Morgan's have black and white contrast, just like a DCAM proof). However, the Prooflike standard is based on the reflectivity of the fields - the devices have no bearing on this. If you look at my registry set, you'll see plenty of coins with some cameo, and plenty without. It is solely based on the fields. Depending on the era, the PL effect could be made differently - modern PLs are completely brilliant and mirrored across the entire coin.

 

I dont think you would lose any money on that coin going from a PL ANACS holder to a * NGC holder.

 

No matter the holder its a rare and unusual coin. And imagine if it got into a NGC PL holder ?

 

Do it as a walk-through at a major show. Pay the ticket and you just may get the upgrade...

 

 

Here's an HD video of the coin. In chrome you can up it to full 1080p HD

 

 

Wow, that coin looks much better in that video than the Ebay sellers pictures indicated. The obverse mirrors are quite strong (much better than any of the Star coins I've seen). The reverse mirrors don't appear quite as strong, and may hold you back from a full PL. Again, this is from looking at the video - in hand, they might be good enough to qualify.

 

 

The reverse mirrors are there a well. The phone was having a tough time focusing with the terser light. You can see an occasional glimpse. I mentioned there is a light sheen of golden toning that made focusing tough especially on the reverse where the rays break the open fields up. Its a really nice coin. I don't think it would go 64 but I think it might be 63. Sellers pics make it look really beat up but once in hand and the mirrors kick in the coin does not look as beat up as the pics at all. Just very hard to photograph.

 

Hopefully you can overcome your fear of mailing coins, and send this to Todd for righteous images. Until then, it is impossible to speculate on a grade or designation for this enigmatic coin.

[mumu]

What I meant was that by having it reslabbed, you would loose the "PL" designation....Seems to me that would reduce the market value.

 

Not real fond of rabbit hunting -- takes too long to chop 'em into Bunny Bits!

 

Any grading is a risk but that's part of the grading game. I think the coin is absolutely deserving of a PL designation at NGC. I believe the coin was tried to crossover 10 years ago and failed but there I believe there is no question that when it comes to P$, this is a proof like example.

[mumu]

I dont know PL coins and with that said.... All I can add is that from the photos, PF's 23 and Jersey's 22-D seem to have PL tendencies... I just dont see the frostiness that I think of when it comes to proof-like on the other coins.

 

Mumu I hope that coin is much better in hand than the photos. Good luck!

 

I think you might have meant to use a different noun other than "frostiness." Mint frost in the fields is an excellent indication that the coin is not fully prooflike. If you meant cameo contrasts on the devices, these are also not considered in awarding a PL or DPL designation although the enhanced eye appeal may garner a star. The determination of whether it is PL or not is whether the fields have the requisite amount of reflectivity. It is all about the depth of the mirrors.

 

People often confuse the "cameo contrast" with "prooflike," probably because Morgan dollar prooflikes often have cameo contrast (the most attractive, highest premium Morgan's have black and white contrast, just like a DCAM proof). However, the Prooflike standard is based on the reflectivity of the fields - the devices have no bearing on this. If you look at my registry set, you'll see plenty of coins with some cameo, and plenty without. It is solely based on the fields. Depending on the era, the PL effect could be made differently - modern PLs are completely brilliant and mirrored across the entire coin.

 

I dont think you would lose any money on that coin going from a PL ANACS holder to a * NGC holder.

 

No matter the holder its a rare and unusual coin. And imagine if it got into a NGC PL holder ?

 

Do it as a walk-through at a major show. Pay the ticket and you just may get the upgrade...

 

 

Here's an HD video of the coin. In chrome you can up it to full 1080p HD

 

 

Wow, that coin looks much better in that video than the Ebay sellers pictures indicated. The obverse mirrors are quite strong (much better than any of the Star coins I've seen). The reverse mirrors don't appear quite as strong, and may hold you back from a full PL. Again, this is from looking at the video - in hand, they might be good enough to qualify.

 

 

The reverse mirrors are there a well. The phone was having a tough time focusing with the terser light. You can see an occasional glimpse. I mentioned there is a light sheen of golden toning that made focusing tough especially on the reverse where the rays break the open fields up. Its a really nice coin. I don't think it would go 64 but I think it might be 63. Sellers pics make it look really beat up but once in hand and the mirrors kick in the coin does not look as beat up as the pics at all. Just very hard to photograph.

 

Hopefully you can overcome your fear of mailing coins, and send this to Todd for righteous images. Until then, it is impossible to speculate on a grade or designation for this enigmatic coin.

 

I am going to do the April Baltimore show and get it imaged and try a walk through, then image again if it goes. No sense mailing it now. Especially with the holiday USPS situation. NGC will be at the NYC world show but doesn't look like they are doing grading there. And I imagine Todd doesn't go to that show.

[jerseycat10]

I am going to do the April Baltimore show and get it imaged and try a walk through, then image again if it goes. No sense mailing it now. Especially with the holiday USPS situation. NGC will be at the NYC world show but doesn't look like they are doing grading there. And I imagine Todd doesn't go to that show.

 

That's great news. Looking forward to seeing proper images.