Is there a need for additional designations?

[Kapimono]

With all the current designations out there like Full band, torch, head, steps and what have you, has there been any thought to a Lincoln memorial full steps? Curious on your thoughts.

[MarkFeld]

Is there a need? Absolutely not.

[coinman1794]

With all the current designations out there like Full band, torch, head, steps and what have you, has there been any thought to a Lincoln memorial full steps? Curious on your thoughts.

 

I'm surprised that there isn't a Full Step designation for Lincoln Memorial Cents, but I don't really think one is necessary, either.

[bstrauss3]

I think MAC has pretty well cornered the market on bogus classifications

[Kapimono]

True, you got me there. Ok, maybe need was the wrong word. Maybe why have designations for the rest, and not the memorial cents? Especially the early ones where almost all the steps are wavy or just plain trashed. Could shine a light on some true hidden gems. Not speaking in favor of it, just wanted to start a discussion.

[BillJones]

Aside from the Full Head for Standing Liberty Quarters and Full Steps for Jefferson Nickels, I think that the rest of these designations are just gimmicks that were created to generate revenue. I have not cluttered my mind with any of them.

[RWB]

Too many as it is...No.

 

Geezzzz.....how finely can the hair be split?

 

 

[CaptHenway]

There are steps on the Memorial design?

[MarkFeld]

Aside from the Full Head for Standing Liberty Quarters and Full Steps for Jefferson Nickels, I think that the rest of these designations are just gimmicks that were created to generate revenue. I have not cluttered my mind with any of them.

 

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

[TonerGuy]

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

 

+1

[david3142]

I wish that many coins simply had a "full strike" definition which would have a few defined features for each design type. This could get tricky as the master hubs were reworked many times for certain series (like Lincoln cents and Washington quarters) but seems manageable. Strike on buffalo nickels is very important to me, particularly on the obverse, but there's no "full braid" designation and I think MAC really misfired on that one, choosing "full split tail".

[cpm9ball]

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

 

+1

 

+2

 

Chris

[Danye West]

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

 

+1

 

+2

 

Chris

 

+3, who cares about FBL if the strike is good?

[e1cnr]

I like the full tail on buffalo nickels once used by accugrade

 

and I would like to see a full earth on IKEs

[coinman1794]

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

 

+1

 

+2

 

Chris

 

+3, who cares about FBL if the strike is good?

 

There are many collectors who do care. The bell lines are a large portion of the reverse. You can't have a well struck Franklin that doesn't have strong bell lines, as they are the only feature of the design that typically comes up weak. Also, when they do not strike up fully, the lower half of the bell is rough and pock marked, as the metal did not make it into the dies and is lacking any uniform structure. You can make an argument that, as long as the bell lines are strong, they do not need to be technically full, but many people would rather see a full strike on this key feature of the design.

[asdfgh]

I find it really useful in picking out really nice coins. Right now I am going thru 6 sets of rosevelt dimes.

I look for the full bands (or full torch) first. I skip all those with the mushy bands. In the earlier dates there are not many that show double bands around the torch. After I cull it down that way, I start looking at the overall grade to decide if I want to send it in. I also find it useful in buying from ebay when there are so many to choose from.

As to using the term full strike that is too broad of a term. No one would know what the TPG was considering and what to send in. The much more narrow terms are easier to deal with and do a good job.

The cents probably do not get such a definition because no one sends in really bad ones, due to the quantities that were made. So every coin would get the designation making it useless. You might note that the proofs do not get designations as every one has the feature due to the process of making them.

[cladking]

I tend to agree that these designations are mostly "gimmicks" simply because Full Whatever doesn't correspond extremely well with full strike. But the way FS applies to the memorial cent amnong those of us who use the term there is a close correlation to Full Steps equalling Full Strike. This is because the steps are massive on the Lincoln cent and are the last part of the design to fill on most specimens. It's also because we include the detail around the steps in the definition. The bottom middle of the step is last to fill and if these lines are sharp then the entire coin will be sharp 99% of the time.

 

Mebbe get rid of all the designations for other coins and just have it for the memorial.

 

Of course this same consideration applies to Full Drum on the '76 quarter. Full Drum almost always means Full Strike.

 

What I'd really like to see is a Full Strike designation.

[Kapimono]

Thanks everyone for the great conversation. It's a very touchy area of the hobby, and I appreciate the expertise given from both sides.

[Nutmeg Coin]

FSB was one of the first designations on Mercury dimes. Harold Kritzman claims to be one of the innovators on that term, this is his business, he runs a shop up in Newington, also a chief judge of Jaguars. Interesting.

 

That is not only a strike issue. I could see two or three criteria being part of a designation, strike though vital is not the sine qua non.

[RWB]

What is commonly called "strike" actually refers to a combination of factors that affect detail of the completed coin.

[jom]

Aside from the Full Head for Standing Liberty Quarters and Full Steps for Jefferson Nickels, I think that the rest of these designations are just gimmicks that were created to generate revenue. I have not cluttered my mind with any of them.

 

I think that the Quarters and Nickels mentioned above are just as much gimmicks, created for the same reason. And, for example, that they are no more valid than the FBL or FB designations on Franklin half dollars and Mercury dimes.

 

In general, I don't like any designation which focuses on a relatively small portion of a coin, to the exclusion of all other areas.

 

+100

 

I've seen numerous "FH" SLQ, for example, that had other areas not fully struck (such as the shield). How is a coin like that "FH" worth more than a fully struck SLQ "non-FH" coin (all else equal)? The market says it is but to me that non-sense. Same goes for Mercs and all the rest....IMO.

 

jom

[Dimeman]

I agree with Bill Jones. It's a revenue thing. On Dimes I look at the overall coin...not just the small area (bands). I will not pay the crazy money for bands such as $200 for a no band coin to 5K or more for the same coin same grade with bands. It doesn't make that much difference in the look of the coin.

 

Although I think the FH on Standing Quarters does make a difference in the look, but there again I would not pay the moon money for the FH coins.