DEALERS: How can the ANA improve their Coin Shows?

[The Penny Lady]

I am honored once again to be asked to Chair of the ANA's Dealer Relations Committee and we have put together an amazing group of people on our new committee. The committee is charged with providing the ANA Board with feedback on and suggestions, recommendations, and concerns involved with the bourse, show, venue, security and other matters at the ANA’s National Money Show and World’s Fair of Money. We are holding a meeting at the Baltimore show next week, so I am gathering information and would like to ask the DEALERS on this forum how they feel the ANA can improve their shows.

 

NOTE: There is a separate committee that is gathering information from collectors on how they feel the ANA shows can be improved, so this particular thread is specifically asking for the dealers' perspective. Thank you!

[tommy44]

Free admission. How does FUN attendance compare to ANA attendance?

[RWB]

"Chair of the ANA's Dealer Relations"

 

Congrats! Now you get to find out who all the dealers are related to.... genetic testing; cloning the good ones?

 

Seriously, I hope you can come up with some interesting and innovative ideas that ANA will implement quickly and aggressively.

[cointagious]

Reduce dealer costs. The shows are too long, and fees, etc., are too expensive.

 

 

 

 

 

( ^ Will never happen.)

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I only sell online, which is where the business is progressing IMO. I have done shows and my concerns and complaints are similar to others here. The one day shows are also usually enough to satisfy demand with a few exceptions like Baltimore, FUN and Long Beach. Parsippany and Albany shows next Sunday will be enough for many collectors. I have heard show and shop dealers not like online sales or online voicing of concerns with in depth coin analysis. Ideally both types of business can work together.

[Raisethis2]

Charmy,

 

I am not a Dealer and have never set up at a show but I've attended a few and have some thoughts.

 

1. The high rent areas of the bourse are reserved for the auction houses, grading companies and the heavyweight Dealers. I think they should pay significantly more for "prime real estate" with ACTUAL decreased table fees for the people stuck in the back. It's stupid to charge so much for a few tables by the johns.

 

2. Dealer to Dealer transactions should be limited to hours before the public enters. Anything beyond a few coins during public access should be back table trading. Covering tables with brief cases and Grey Sheets is frustrating and drives Buyers away. This Dealer to Dealer time should not have any cost. That just encourages Dealers who are budget wise to trade during show hours.

 

3. Admission should be free (at least one day) of a major show.

 

4. First year membership to the ANA should be free with subsequent years costing no more than $10 to general members.

 

5. Maybe combine 3 and 4 to accord free admission to people who join for free.

 

6. A mandatory meeting of (at least 1 representative) for all Dealers in attendance to convey the ANA's views and expectations might be in order.

 

7. Negotiate hotel and transportation costs in advance to reduce Dealer costs where possible. All Dealers are different, a block of rooms in the closest major hotel property at $300 a night might be trumped by a second offering just a mile away.

 

Shuttle services are available for a nominal daily rate at most major destinations.

 

8. Are the rental cases paid for yet? These fees are probably too high.

 

 

 

 

[The Penny Lady]

Thank you for you comments, I will pass them on.

[MarkFeld]

Charmy,

 

I am not a Dealer and have never set up at a show but I've attended a few and have some thoughts.

 

1. The high rent areas of the bourse are reserved for the auction houses, grading companies and the heavyweight Dealers. I think they should pay significantly more for "prime real estate" with ACTUAL decreased table fees for the people stuck in the back. It's stupid to charge so much for a few tables by the johns.

 

2. Dealer to Dealer transactions should be limited to hours before the public enters. Anything beyond a few coins during public access should be back table trading. Covering tables with brief cases and Grey Sheets is frustrating and drives Buyers away. This Dealer to Dealer time should not have any cost. That just encourages Dealers who are budget wise to trade during show hours.

 

3. Admission should be free (at least one day) of a major show.

 

4. First year membership to the ANA should be free with subsequent years costing no more than $10 to general members.

 

5. Maybe combine 3 and 4 to accord free admission to people who join for free.

 

6. A mandatory meeting of (at least 1 representative) for all Dealers in attendance to convey the ANA's views and expectations might be in order.

 

7. Negotiate hotel and transportation costs in advance to reduce Dealer costs where possible. All Dealers are different, a block of rooms in the closest major hotel property at $300 a night might be trumped by a second offering just a mile away.

 

Shuttle services are available for a nominal daily rate at most major destinations.

 

8. Are the rental cases paid for yet? These fees are probably too high.

 

 

 

I take issue with #2 and 6 above.

 

#2: Many dealers prefer to do or are essentially forced to conduct primarily wholesale business. And as table-paying participants, it should be their choice. Also, I hate seeing tables that are covered by briefcases and sheets, but collectors are guilty of that, as well.

 

#6:The ANA's views and expectations could easily be conveyed without a (mandatory) meeting.

 

Also, I believe that #7 is already done with respect to blocks of hotel rooms at different locations.

 

 

 

[BillJones]

As a retired dealer I can tell you that the ANA's demands for contributions to the organization in return for better positions on the bourse floor were sickening. I remember a conversation between the late Steve Tannenbaum and an ANA representative which sounded like a shake down. The conversation was something like, "If you donate X, we'll put you in position Y."

 

Steve was a dealer in tokens and medals, not coins. His type of business required far more space than most fair sized coin dealers. To have a successful show he needed a large end of the row booth. Yet to get spot that had commercial viability, he had to make large contributions to the ANA.

 

The ANA should look at the FUN model. FUN does not push their dealers to make huge contributions or really any contributions to the organization beyond the requirement that you must be a FUN member, which is reasonable. To me the winter FUN show is the best coin show of the year. The ANA could learn something from it.

 

[RWB]

PS: A belated Happy Birthday....Now you're 30 !

[The Penny Lady]

Thank you RWB for the birthday wishes! Being 30 again feels great!

 

And thank you Mark for your comments. FYI (I posted this ATS on the same thread): one of the main things on our upcoming agenda is to discuss the length of the ANA WFOM show. Another is whether they should continue having a preshow. And another main discussion item is the location of future shows.

 

When our committee meets, we are usually given a breakdown of various possible cities to hold future ANA shows which includes information about whether that city has tax issues, airports that are large enough to accommodate dealer carry-on bags and are close to site, hotel locations and costs, size of convention facility, is there a host club, and much more. Personally, I was surprised by how many things the ANA must consider before choosing an appropriate convention site. Because one location is never ideal, sometimes the ANA has to "give" on some things and "take" on others.

 

Thank you for your comments - I am cutting and pasting them into a document and will present them to the committee to add to our discussion. Once we discuss them, we present our suggestions and recommendations to the ANA for use in their decisions on future shows.

[leeg]

I've only been to a couple local shows but would love to go to an ANA. I'm fairly close to Virginia Beach, VA., and think it would be a super location for an ANA. I feel the location has everything needed.

 

 

[asdfgh]

I am not a dealer, however I do not think any day of the show should be free. The admission is charged not only to raise money but as a security measure. People who are not coin people won't pay the admission just to wander around looking for something to lift.

[Raisethis2]

Free admission is different from registering. I do think for security reasons you should show ID to get inside. If a person's goal is to steal at a show, I don't think the $6 to get in is a deterrent.

 

On the other hand, a non collector, a child or very part time collector enticed to enter free and join ANA free just might get the bug (as we all have). This hobby is a sausage fest of men over 50 as it is. If we don't take steps to refill the funnel what will eventually shake out will be.............nothing.

[The Penny Lady]

I have a specific question for the DEALERS that I'd like to pose for our committee's discussion: WHAT IS YOUR PREFERRED CITY TO HOLD AN ANA SHOW, AND WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS?

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

I found the Boston location to be excellent both from the historical perspective and with the cultural background that the city represents. NYC though more expensive than some sites has it's pluses. Baltimore as the city with strong numismatic show history is good. A unique idea would be trying to run major ANA shows in every state for variety's sake. Another hobby I have participated in, tournament chess, has a dedicated organization Continental chess association that manages to move around the US finding interesting resort and business city style sites, you can check out their month by month venue for where they set up. I'm not sure how relevant this is due to security and other concerns within numismatics.

[RWB]

Of course, there is always Washington DC. Plenty of convention and hotel space, lots to do and much of it free. If the Convention Center is too large, National Harbor almost at the end of the Wilson bridge has mid-size convention space.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Also Alexandria has many conventions, it is almost DC, via transit you get there quickly. I'm sure there are some exceptional numismatists who would be very good at explaining the significance of the major coins at the Smithsonian in person which would be one advantage.

[cointagious]

I have a specific question for the DEALERS that I'd like to pose for our committee's discussion: WHAT IS YOUR PREFERRED CITY TO HOLD AN ANA SHOW, AND WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS?

 

I.

DON'T.

CARE.

 

Suburban Podunk, Iowa in a barn is fine if I can make real $$$.

 

Greg Lyon has indicted that the board already understands the dealer needs and the cities' qualifications for holding the convention. They already know where the conventions work, and where they do not.

 

Simply select 1, 2, or 3 cities in the East, the same with the Central US, and a couple in the West that meet those needs / qualifications, and then rotate the shows between them. This struggling with show locations to please a club is ridiculous in light of the fact that Lyon claims the shows are basically break even. Given that table fees are 20% + more than the business shows like Whitman is concerning, and indicative of a systemic problem.

 

Add a third show so that there's an ANA convention in all 3 sectors at least once a year. It could provide collectors a better sense of belonging.

 

Committing to venues that actually want to host the ANA would go towards making the shows more profitable for both the ANA, and the dealers. Oh, and don't step on other regional show dates, or into venues like Baltimore, or Long Beach.

 

Two cities in the East that work well for collectors are Orlando, and Philadelphia (allegedly, the labor problems have been solved). They both meet all of the qualifications that ANA looks for such as being sales tax friendly, good venues, easily accessible by mainline aircraft, plenty of rooms, one a vacation destination, and the other a population hub, plus there's other worthwhile distractions when not attending the show.

 

When the ANA chooses to run the conventions as a business rather than a club get-together then many of the issues confronting them will melt away.

 

 

[RJP]

On a free admission note.

The Long Beach show was free to PCGS registry members in the past and just for that reason I attended 3 out of 4 days.

Maybe the ANA Shows could be free to ANA Members

 

JOIN ANA

ALL LEVELS OF MEMBERSHIP RECEIVE: ....

 

And they could advertise free admission at ANA shows with their membership dues.

And send a email to the active members and bring a copy of it to the show for their free admission ticket

 

Anyways that is how PCGS did it, and I liked it and look forward to attending the next PCGS Long Beach show.

[illini420]

On a free admission note.

The Long Beach show was free to PCGS registry members in the past and just for that reason I attended 3 out of 4 days.

Maybe the ANA Shows could be free to ANA Members

 

 

Unless something changed in the last couple of months, free admission to the ANA show is already a benefit of ANA membership.

 

In addition, you can pre-register for the show a month or so in advance and the ANA will mail you your admission badge (good for all public days + early admission on a few days) so you don't have to wait in line to get anything when you arrive.

 

 

[RJP]

OK Thanks

I did not know free admission for ANA members to the ANA shows.

[Six Mile Rick]

Anybody here selling at Greenville, SC show this weekend??

[nk1nk]

Not a dealer but think the ANA should come back to Salt Lake City, Utah.

 

Nick