Auction House evals

[Davids5104]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

[coinman_23885]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

Please note that I do not mean to be discourteous, but did you not read the terms of bidding ahead of time? Did you not pay attention to the buyer's premium warning below the bidding box?

[david3142]

I have had excellent experiences with both. I just won a few lots from SB as well and they have already arrived. I will also add that Legend does a fantastic job too and they all have the same BP. The shipping terms are slightly different but that usually doesn't matter too much.

[Davids5104]

I was quite aware of the BP. I do not think you could reasonably argue you were not aware because it is labeled so extensively. I did not know about the shipping. I was just wondering if 17.5% is actually the going rate, seems excessive to me.

[Raisethis2]

17.5 $% is tops in the industry as far as I know. On E-Bay the same coin ships for a small fee and NO BP. It's clearly the better deal on white coins graded the same in the same plastic "usually".

 

 

Normally no matter what the BP, sharp bidders stop below the total cost and don't continue bidding unless it's a coin they're willing to pay through the nose to get. The big auction houses are painted into a corner of their own doing. Who's going to pay 20% on a coin in the future?

 

 

[david3142]

The BP is irrelevant to a buyer, since the total cost is know at the time of bidding. It only matters to the seller. Also, judging from the huge offerings from both companies at the upcoming ANA show, auction houses seem to be doing just fine.

[Hack]

I like Heritage the best because they have the best selection of coins and the best software for viewing and bidding on coins. I factor the BP and shipping cost into my bids, so it is no different to me than buying a coin on eBay. When Heritage ties their auction with a major coin show, the bidding at times can get crazy on key dates and high quality coins and I have to be careful not to pay too much.

 

I also buy coins at Great Collections, and they have a 10% BP, but the selection is a little less and the auction style is more like eBay. The buyer also pays for the shipping.

 

 

 

 

[Conder101]

I was just wondering if 17.5% is actually the going rate, seems excessive to me.

It is the going rate through the major houses here in the US. Some of the smaller specialty houses (that don't do numismatics as a major part of their business) can run a little higher. Be glad you don't live in Europe. There the BP is 20 - 22%, plus you have to pay the 15% VAT (value added tax) plus shipping. So figure hammer price plus 37%. So when I bid in an auction in Europe I have a 15% advantage over the locals. (since the coins are being shipped out of the EU I don't have to pay the VAT.)

[BillJones]

The Heritage buyers' fee for political items is 25%. Some people bid as if it isn't even there. Needless to say it's there so far as I'm concerned, and a result it's hard for me to buy political items from Heritage.

[World Colonial]

I was just wondering if 17.5% is actually the going rate, seems excessive to me.

It is the going rate through the major houses here in the US. Some of the smaller specialty houses (that don't do numismatics as a major part of their business) can run a little higher. Be glad you don't live in Europe. There the BP is 20 - 22%, plus you have to pay the 15% VAT (value added tax) plus shipping. So figure hammer price plus 37%. So when I bid in an auction in Europe I have a 15% advantage over the locals. (since the coins are being shipped out of the EU I don't have to pay the VAT.)

 

As far as I know, the VAT is only on the buyer's fee, not the hammer price. Or at least it is for the UK and Spanish auctions I use.

[ianrussell]

I was just wondering if 17.5% is actually the going rate, seems excessive to me.

It is the going rate through the major houses here in the US. Some of the smaller specialty houses (that don't do numismatics as a major part of their business) can run a little higher. Be glad you don't live in Europe. There the BP is 20 - 22%, plus you have to pay the 15% VAT (value added tax) plus shipping. So figure hammer price plus 37%. So when I bid in an auction in Europe I have a 15% advantage over the locals. (since the coins are being shipped out of the EU I don't have to pay the VAT.)

 

As far as I know, the VAT is only on the buyer's fee, not the hammer price. Or at least it is for the UK and Spanish auctions I use.

 

That might be because they are shipping the product outside of the tax region (if you are in the region/country, you would likely have to pay tax on everything). Interesting that the tax is charged on the buyer's fee, because the hammer fell and the authorities believe the service the auction house is providing in their country should still attract a tax for overseas bidders.

 

- Ian

[Lucky One]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

I have done my share of business with most of the big firms and overall they have done me good. What I don't like is that they often overlook a problem on a coin in a slab that many years ago would have been described on a raw coin. A couple of cases to illustrate my point. I recently bought a very rare half eagle in a straight grade major slab (one of the top 2). It was graded AU58 and cost about five grand. Even though it is my fault for not asking wuestions, the coin is so rare that I didn;t want to lose the chance, which from experience would have taken another several years to locate a similar one, so I went out to the Heritage archives and found that it had sold in two Heritage auctions in the past. Since the photos on Heritage didn't show the scratches well, I assumed they were hairline die breaks. I know I shouldn't have assumed anything and the fact that they turned out to be serious scrathches is not the point or the focus of my complaint- the real problem is that IF Heritages cataloger had pointed out the serious scratches, I wuld have had the answer to the question that I couldn't get answered at the time I had to make a decision. I find this to be extremely unsettling as well as unprofessional. The coin was returned but it shouldnt be in that slab, year after year, auction after auction, just waiting for a sucker to stick to. Shame on this practice of letting an insert on a slab describe a coin with a mere sterile number when the coin is infected so severely. No sour grapes on my part for having to return the coin, but disappointing that the real 'pros' refuse to describe serious defects on the coins in their slabs. The second coin in question was a Dahlonega issue half eagle in a MS61 slab, again one of the top two grading companies. I was able to reach the seller of this piece before I bought it and when queried about whether he thought it was MS and properly graded, his first words were 'it looks like a very nice slider to my eye'. If it isn't mint state, it should be described as what it really is, not what the slab says on the label. Come on sellers, please describe the coun, not the slab- some of us are serious about our hobby...

[James_OldeTowne]

17.5 $% is tops in the industry as far as I know.

It's 19.5% in several domestic venues, and as has been mentioned, some European auctions have BP well into the 20s.

[SkyMan]

Coins have relatively inexpensive BP.

 

Most art, signatures, historical items etc. tend to run in the 22.5% - 25% range... plus sales tax.

[BillJones]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

I have done my share of business with most of the big firms and overall they have done me good. What I don't like is that they often overlook a problem on a coin in a slab that many years ago would have been described on a raw coin. A couple of cases to illustrate my point. I recently bought a very rare half eagle in a straight grade major slab (one of the top 2). It was graded AU58 and cost about five grand. Even though it is my fault for not asking wuestions, the coin is so rare that I didn;t want to lose the chance, which from experience would have taken another several years to locate a similar one, so I went out to the Heritage archives and found that it had sold in two Heritage auctions in the past. Since the photos on Heritage didn't show the scratches well, I assumed they were hairline die breaks. I know I shouldn't have assumed anything and the fact that they turned out to be serious scrathches is not the point or the focus of my complaint- the real problem is that IF Heritages cataloger had pointed out the serious scratches, I wuld have had the answer to the question that I couldn't get answered at the time I had to make a decision. I find this to be extremely unsettling as well as unprofessional. The coin was returned but it shouldnt be in that slab, year after year, auction after auction, just waiting for a sucker to stick to. Shame on this practice of letting an insert on a slab describe a coin with a mere sterile number when the coin is infected so severely. No sour grapes on my part for having to return the coin, but disappointing that the real 'pros' refuse to describe serious defects on the coins in their slabs. The second coin in question was a Dahlonega issue half eagle in a MS61 slab, again one of the top two grading companies. I was able to reach the seller of this piece before I bought it and when queried about whether he thought it was MS and properly graded, his first words were 'it looks like a very nice slider to my eye'. If it isn't mint state, it should be described as what it really is, not what the slab says on the label. Come on sellers, please describe the coun, not the slab- some of us are serious about our hobby...

 

I understand you frustration, Luckyone, but the auction house has two parties to please, the consigner and the bidders. When the consigner has a coin that has gotten a straight grade from a major grading service, the "industry standard" is that the coin is "market acceptable" for the grade. Not all of us agree with that of course.

 

I don't know if they do it for everybody, but I have contacted Heritage and gotten advice about specific lots. They have given me honest answers about the coins that interested me, and good guidelines about what a fair price would be with respect to bidding. And yes, they have told me when some lots have been bid up too high in their opinion. I have nothing but good things to say about the information they have given me about specific lots.

 

[MarkFeld]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

I have done my share of business with most of the big firms and overall they have done me good. What I don't like is that they often overlook a problem on a coin in a slab that many years ago would have been described on a raw coin. A couple of cases to illustrate my point. I recently bought a very rare half eagle in a straight grade major slab (one of the top 2). It was graded AU58 and cost about five grand. Even though it is my fault for not asking wuestions, the coin is so rare that I didn;t want to lose the chance, which from experience would have taken another several years to locate a similar one, so I went out to the Heritage archives and found that it had sold in two Heritage auctions in the past. Since the photos on Heritage didn't show the scratches well, I assumed they were hairline die breaks. I know I shouldn't have assumed anything and the fact that they turned out to be serious scrathches is not the point or the focus of my complaint- the real problem is that IF Heritages cataloger had pointed out the serious scratches, I wuld have had the answer to the question that I couldn't get answered at the time I had to make a decision. I find this to be extremely unsettling as well as unprofessional. The coin was returned but it shouldnt be in that slab, year after year, auction after auction, just waiting for a sucker to stick to. Shame on this practice of letting an insert on a slab describe a coin with a mere sterile number when the coin is infected so severely. No sour grapes on my part for having to return the coin, but disappointing that the real 'pros' refuse to describe serious defects on the coins in their slabs. The second coin in question was a Dahlonega issue half eagle in a MS61 slab, again one of the top two grading companies. I was able to reach the seller of this piece before I bought it and when queried about whether he thought it was MS and properly graded, his first words were 'it looks like a very nice slider to my eye'. If it isn't mint state, it should be described as what it really is, not what the slab says on the label. Come on sellers, please describe the coun, not the slab- some of us are serious about our hobby...

 

I understand you frustration, Luckyone, but the auction house has two parties to please, the consigner and the bidders. When the consigner has a coin that has gotten a straight grade from a major grading service, the "industry standard" is that the coin is "market acceptable" for the grade. Not all of us agree with that of course.

 

I got burned on the first coin I bought at auction with a CAC sticker. CAC did buy the coin from me, but it dampened my support for what their program. You CAC folks can yell at now, I've heard your complains and don't care.

 

I don't know if they do it for everybody, but I have contacted Heritage and gotten advice about specific lots. They have given me honest answers about the coins that interested me, and good guidelines about what a fair price would be with respect to bidding. And yes, they have told me when some lots have been bid up too high in their opinion. I have nothing but good things to say about the information they have given me about specific lots.

 

Yes, Heritage will provide sight-seen feedback about auction lots, upon request. I have done so for dozens of clients.

[Hack]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

I have done my share of business with most of the big firms and overall they have done me good. What I don't like is that they often overlook a problem on a coin in a slab that many years ago would have been described on a raw coin. A couple of cases to illustrate my point. I recently bought a very rare half eagle in a straight grade major slab (one of the top 2). It was graded AU58 and cost about five grand. Even though it is my fault for not asking wuestions, the coin is so rare that I didn;t want to lose the chance, which from experience would have taken another several years to locate a similar one, so I went out to the Heritage archives and found that it had sold in two Heritage auctions in the past. Since the photos on Heritage didn't show the scratches well, I assumed they were hairline die breaks. I know I shouldn't have assumed anything and the fact that they turned out to be serious scrathches is not the point or the focus of my complaint- the real problem is that IF Heritages cataloger had pointed out the serious scratches, I wuld have had the answer to the question that I couldn't get answered at the time I had to make a decision. I find this to be extremely unsettling as well as unprofessional. The coin was returned but it shouldnt be in that slab, year after year, auction after auction, just waiting for a sucker to stick to. Shame on this practice of letting an insert on a slab describe a coin with a mere sterile number when the coin is infected so severely. No sour grapes on my part for having to return the coin, but disappointing that the real 'pros' refuse to describe serious defects on the coins in their slabs. The second coin in question was a Dahlonega issue half eagle in a MS61 slab, again one of the top two grading companies. I was able to reach the seller of this piece before I bought it and when queried about whether he thought it was MS and properly graded, his first words were 'it looks like a very nice slider to my eye'. If it isn't mint state, it should be described as what it really is, not what the slab says on the label. Come on sellers, please describe the coun, not the slab- some of us are serious about our hobby...

 

I understand you frustration, Luckyone, but the auction house has two parties to please, the consigner and the bidders. When the consigner has a coin that has gotten a straight grade from a major grading service, the "industry standard" is that the coin is "market acceptable" for the grade. Not all of us agree with that of course.

 

I got burned on the first coin I bought at auction with a CAC sticker. CAC did buy the coin from me, but it dampened my support for what their program. You CAC folks can yell at now, I've heard your complains and don't care.

 

I don't know if they do it for everybody, but I have contacted Heritage and gotten advice about specific lots. They have given me honest answers about the coins that interested me, and good guidelines about what a fair price would be with respect to bidding. And yes, they have told me when some lots have been bid up too high in their opinion. I have nothing but good things to say about the information they have given me about specific lots.

 

Yes, Heritage will provide sight-seen feedback about auction lots, upon request. I have done so for dozens of clients.

 

 

I have seen where Heritage will provide description comments both positive and negative on high end coins. The negative comments typically have a spin on the issue that you need to read between the lines for example, this AU 58 has some scratches that can be typical for the grade and date.

 

 

[Hack]

When I am buying a coin online from the auction houses, I like to have a photo and description as the description supports what I am seeing in the photo. I would like to see Great Collection add description comments to their high end coins as bidding on a photo only can be deceptive as some coins simply do not photograph as the coin shows in hand.

[MarkFeld]

I just bought my first few coins off of stacks bowers and heritage and wanted to know how people perceive these auctions/houses.

 

I personally am happy with my purchases but am somewhat displeased with the BP and shipping associated.

 

I also did not realize shipping was additional on the front end. All in all, I made nice purchases for four coins at a cheaper price than ebay offers with the BP and shipping.

 

I have done my share of business with most of the big firms and overall they have done me good. What I don't like is that they often overlook a problem on a coin in a slab that many years ago would have been described on a raw coin. A couple of cases to illustrate my point. I recently bought a very rare half eagle in a straight grade major slab (one of the top 2). It was graded AU58 and cost about five grand. Even though it is my fault for not asking wuestions, the coin is so rare that I didn;t want to lose the chance, which from experience would have taken another several years to locate a similar one, so I went out to the Heritage archives and found that it had sold in two Heritage auctions in the past. Since the photos on Heritage didn't show the scratches well, I assumed they were hairline die breaks. I know I shouldn't have assumed anything and the fact that they turned out to be serious scrathches is not the point or the focus of my complaint- the real problem is that IF Heritages cataloger had pointed out the serious scratches, I wuld have had the answer to the question that I couldn't get answered at the time I had to make a decision. I find this to be extremely unsettling as well as unprofessional. The coin was returned but it shouldnt be in that slab, year after year, auction after auction, just waiting for a sucker to stick to. Shame on this practice of letting an insert on a slab describe a coin with a mere sterile number when the coin is infected so severely. No sour grapes on my part for having to return the coin, but disappointing that the real 'pros' refuse to describe serious defects on the coins in their slabs. The second coin in question was a Dahlonega issue half eagle in a MS61 slab, again one of the top two grading companies. I was able to reach the seller of this piece before I bought it and when queried about whether he thought it was MS and properly graded, his first words were 'it looks like a very nice slider to my eye'. If it isn't mint state, it should be described as what it really is, not what the slab says on the label. Come on sellers, please describe the coun, not the slab- some of us are serious about our hobby...

 

I understand you frustration, Luckyone, but the auction house has two parties to please, the consigner and the bidders. When the consigner has a coin that has gotten a straight grade from a major grading service, the "industry standard" is that the coin is "market acceptable" for the grade. Not all of us agree with that of course.

 

I got burned on the first coin I bought at auction with a CAC sticker. CAC did buy the coin from me, but it dampened my support for what their program. You CAC folks can yell at now, I've heard your complains and don't care.

 

I don't know if they do it for everybody, but I have contacted Heritage and gotten advice about specific lots. They have given me honest answers about the coins that interested me, and good guidelines about what a fair price would be with respect to bidding. And yes, they have told me when some lots have been bid up too high in their opinion. I have nothing but good things to say about the information they have given me about specific lots.

 

Yes, Heritage will provide sight-seen feedback about auction lots, upon request. I have done so for dozens of clients.

 

 

I have seen where Heritage will provide description comments both positive and negative on high end coins. The negative comments typically have a spin on the issue that you need to read between the lines for example, this AU 58 has some scratches that can be typical for the grade and date.

 

 

When I provide feedback on coins, I assure you, I don't put any spin on my negative comments. I have been known to make grown men (who were hoping I would say good things about the coins) cry!

[jpcienkus]

I have experience at Heritage, Stack's, Legend, Great Collections and Scotsmans. I also have won auctions at David Lawrence, but they are a hybrid auction house, IMO.

 

The BP is what it is and you should be factoring it into your bidding. Great Collections offers the best BP and shipping costs. They also ship very quickly.

 

My favorite auction house is Heritage. Their website is unparalleled and the easiest to use for browsing their large auctions. All my interactions with customer service have been great. At times, they don't always ship quickly, but if you're anxious to get your winnings, a simple call to customer service usually gets things moving. Keep in mind, many of their signature auctions last days, so you have to wait until the auction is over before anything can happen.

 

Edited to add:

I haven't had any real negative experiences with any of the auction houses I've listed. They each have their own nuances, but nothing to get overly upset about. That's just my opinion.

[BillJones]

I have seen where Heritage will provide description comments both positive and negative on high end coins. The negative comments typically have a spin on the issue that you need to read between the lines for example, this AU 58 has some scratches that can be typical for the grade and date.

 

I will reiterate my point. When I have asked Heritage directly for a critique and estimated hammer prices for a coin at auction, I have gotten frank and honest feedback.

 

The descriptions in their auction catalogs can be "optimistic," but please recall my first point. The auction house has an obligation to serve both the consignors and the bidders. If you emphasize all of the negatives, you are not serving the consigners well, and if you don't take care of the consigners, you won't get the good material to sell.