Holy Grail

[braden j.-migration]

What is the Holy Grail of US coins?

 

[dadams]

Brasher Doubloon

[david3142]

I don't see how it could be anything other than the 1849 Double Eagle. The first $20 gold piece struck with a known mintage of 1 and it's never been privately owned.

 

If the holy grail implies unknown whereabouts I'd say the most apt coin is the 1964-D Peace Dollar.

[dadams]

1849 Double Eagle

[MarkFeld]

I don't see how it could be anything other than the 1849 Double Eagle. The first $20 gold piece struck with a known mintage of 1 and it's never been privately owned.

 

If the holy grail implies unknown whereabouts I'd say the most apt coin is the 1964-D Peace Dollar.

 

I believe two were struck and that the whereabouts of the second one are unknown.

 

I don't see how anyone could answer the original question with "I don't see how it could be anything other than..." There are a lot of differenet coins to choose from and they have different appeal, meaning and importance to different people.

 

[david3142]

Thanks for correcting me on the first part. I didn't know there was potentially more than one.

I stand by the other part though. If the question is not about personal preference, but the hobby as a whole, I think the 1849 $20 would win in a poll and I think if all coins were auctioned it would be the most expensive coin. PCGS refers to it as "THE coin" in its list of million dollar coins. There are other coins that are probably more famous but the 1804 $1, 1913 5c, 1907 Ex-HR $20, and 1933 $20 all have mintages of at least 5.

 

Do you disagree with my choice or just on the principle that it is reasonably clear cut?

[MarkFeld]

Thanks for correcting me on the first part. I didn't know there was potentially more than one.

I stand by the other part though. If the question is not about personal preference, but the hobby as a whole, I think the 1849 $20 would win in a poll and I think if all coins were auctioned it would be the most expensive coin. PCGS refers to it as "THE coin" in its list of million dollar coins. There are other coins that are probably more famous but the 1804 $1, 1913 5c, 1907 Ex-HR $20, and 1933 $20 all have mintages of at least 5.

 

Do you disagree with my choice or just on the principle that it is reasonably clear cut?

 

I don't think it is clear cut at all.

 

To me, the fact that there is only one currently known 1849 $20 doesn't automatically make it more of a holy grail coin than others with higher populations.

 

Why should the first $20 produced be more important than the first of another denomination?

 

Personally, if I could have one coin, I'd probably choose J-1776. And I think that if both it and the 1849 $20 were made available via auction, the former might bring a higher price than the latter.

[seventee]

The holy grail of US ten cent coins has got to be the 1894-S dime.The 1894-S dime is the only true rarity of the Barber coinage.

 

I would say that,at the least,each denomination/composition should have its own holy grail.Some hot disputes will arise.It's something to look forward to.

 

So holy grail for dimes is 1894-S.What would holy grail for quarters be? That's considering all quarters 1796 to present.

[World Colonial]

Thanks for correcting me on the first part. I didn't know there was potentially more than one.

I stand by the other part though. If the question is not about personal preference, but the hobby as a whole, I think the 1849 $20 would win in a poll and I think if all coins were auctioned it would be the most expensive coin. PCGS refers to it as "THE coin" in its list of million dollar coins. There are other coins that are probably more famous but the 1804 $1, 1913 5c, 1907 Ex-HR $20, and 1933 $20 all have mintages of at least 5.

 

Do you disagree with my choice or just on the principle that it is reasonably clear cut?

 

I think of the 1849 $20 gold as the #1 US coin and no, it isn't first on my list. I rate J-1776 as the #2 US coin. If J-1776 sold for more, I believe (but cannot prove) that the difference in grade would be a likely reason. US collectors consistently value higher over lower grade coins.

 

In my opinion, the #1 US coin is the 1861 CSA original half dollar. To my knowledge, its the only coin directly tied to the Confederacy (the cents were not) and only four are known. The grades of the surviving specimens, denomination and metal content will keep it from ever being the highest regarded coin.

 

I consider the Brasher doubloon or maybe half doubloon (in the Smithsonian collection) as the #2 US coin.

[World Colonial]

There are other coins that are probably more famous but the 1804 $1, 1913 5c, 1907 Ex-HR $20, and 1933 $20 all have mintages of at least 5.

 

 

I don't believe the 1907 Ex HR is famous at all. It is held in high regard by long time or "serious" collectors of US coinage but I don't believe it is known to the general US collector population. Like most US coins, foreign collectors have never heard of it. The non-collecting public has never heard of most supposedly "famous" coins, whether US or otherwise. I mean, we are not talking about the Mona Lisa or the Biblical Ark of the Covenant.

 

In my opinion, the 1913 LHN, 1804 dollar and 1909-S VDB cent are probably the most widely known US coins.

[Walkerfan]

Holy grail depends upon your series. My holy grail would be the 1921-S Half in high grade gem.

 

When examining the broader spectrum, as a whole; I personally like the 1794 dollar graded SP 66 by PCGS.

 

It is likely the first dollar ever struck by our Country.

 

That coin is steeped in history and mystique and is in tremendous condition. JMHO.

 

 

[seventee]

Actually,I changed my mind about holy grail for dimes.The 1792 Disme is the true holy grail for ten cent pieces.

 

The plate coin on page 89 of Red Book will do as my disme holy grail.

 

Any of the 1792 pieces qualify as holy grail material?

 

(1) 1792 Silver Center Cent

 

(2) 1792 Birch Cent

 

(3) 1792 Half Disme.There's a member who posts here who has one of these.

 

(4) 1792 Disme.

[david3142]

I would agree that the 1907 Ex-HR is not famous among those who are not serious US coin collectors. I suppose I shouldn't have grouped it with the others, I was just selecting other contenders which are always among the top few in the "Greatest US Coins" books.

 

J-1776 is of course known as "the other coin" in the PCGS list.

 

PCGS CoinFacts 1849 Double Eagle

[World Colonial]

I have the "Top 100 US Coins" book. Using this list or the 91 coins (excluding die varieties) in the "PCGS Million Dollar Club", I know most of them aren't well known except with the "hard core" collector and in my opinion, the merits of most of them are also hugely inflated by US collectors generally. Most of them are actually obscure. They just happen to sell for exorbitant prices because of the disproportionately large (versus other countries) affluent collector base.

 

The other coins mentioned here, i consider the 1792 federal patterns among the most significant. I consider the 1792 Disme more significant than the 1894-S dime but I'm not sure this is the consensus. I also consider the other 1792 patterns more significant than any coin in the same denomination from regular issue coinage, whether circulation or proof strike.

 

Some denominations I don't think have any really high profile coins. Quarter and halves, not really. Both have numerous rarities but I don't believe many collectors really want them that badly.

 

My #1 US regular issue coin is the 1822 half eagle, regardless of its grade.

 

Other coins I consider among the most significant include Sommer Islands Hogge money, NE coinage, the 1792 Washington half dollar in silver (Getz pattern Baker 24a), the proof $50 territorial :"slug" and the 1850 Baldwin & Co Horsemen $10.

 

The US coins I prefer the most are those which have more than a narrow form of "rarity" (such as "grade rarity"), look different from most others and are actually hard to buy.

[david3142]

Mark, how many numismatists do you have on hand in the Dallas office? Can you do a quick survey? I'd be interested to hear the results as I obviously thought this issue was more open-and-shut than it seems to be.

[MarkFeld]

Mark, how many numismatists do you have on hand in the Dallas office? Can you do a quick survey? I'd be interested to hear the results as I obviously thought this issue was more open-and-shut than it seems to be.

 

I don't know how many numismatists work here, though several are currently out of town. However, I just asked four of the ones who are here something to the effect of "If you had to choose one US coin that represents the holy grail, what would it be?

 

One chose the 1804 dollar

One chose the 1913 nickel

Two chose the Brasher Doubloon

[david3142]

Wow, 0 for 4. Maybe there is a bias given Heritage's history with the Doubloons. Perhaps the fact that the 1849 has never sold makes it less salient? I may have to create a poll ATS.

[MarkFeld]

Wow, 0 for 4. Maybe there is a bias given Heritage's history with the Doubloons. Perhaps the fact that the 1849 has never sold makes it less salient? I may have to create a poll ATS.

 

Or maybe you're biased about the 1849 $20 for some reason

 

The main reason I didn't think the answer was at all clear cut was because each of us has our own biases, likes, dislikes, interests, idea of what "holy grail" means, etc.

 

How many collectors grew up, hearing about the 1849 $20, as compared to some other less rare, but far more publicized coins? And let's face it, most of us are affected (though in varying degrees) by such publicity.

[orifdoc]

1964-D Peace dollar. With all of the commotion surrounding the 33 Saints there's no way one of these is surfacing in the U.S. anytime soon.

[brg5658]

I don't consider the "Brasher Doubloon" to be a US coin. It was privately issued/struck, and is about as much a US coin as is a Civil War Token, or a Hard Times token, or maybe more comparable, any colonial issue before the USA existed.

 

1849 $20 is a pattern (J-117)

J-1776 is a pattern -- a darn cool one, but again, it's a "one-off"

1804 silver $1 are all "fantasy" issues minted in the 1830s or later

The 1913 Liberty nickels were not authorized for issue, and only 5 were struck

 

Excluding patterns, proofs, and coins that were never authorized for release (e.g., 1964-D Peace dollar), I think it's hard to come up with a single "Holy Grail" coin that someone outside of the very specialized numismatic circles would recognize.

 

 

 

[History Student]

The HOLY GRAIL is a coin that you personally have wanted craved desired wished was in you specific collection from the very beginning.

 

I suggest that you take the highest value coin(s) now in your collection and call them the CURRENT HOLY GRAIL. YOURS....

 

Forget all the baloney of the millionaires...

[leeg]

I'm a fan of early copper. This is my choice:

 

1793 Wreath 1C Strawberry Leaf

 

 

[coinman_23885]

Excluding patterns, proofs, and coins that were never authorized for release (e.g., 1964-D Peace dollar), I think it's hard to come up with a single "Holy Grail" coin that someone outside of the very specialized numismatic circles would recognize.

 

Why exclude proof coins? I don't see any principled basis for doing so. And under your definition, I think most have heard of the $10,000,000 MS66 1794 Dollar that Legend purchased or the 1870-S Half Dime (unique). Throwing proof coins back in, I would count the 1894-S Barber Head Dime as a candidate as well. And even though the number of legal copies has exploded, I think most lay audiences/general collectors would include the 1933 circulation Double Eagle given the media attention it has received because of the Langboards.

[michael]

here ya go 49'ers

 

 

http://www.coinraritiesonline.com/index.php?page=archive&task=det_archive&offset=136&gal_id=1

[World Colonial]

I don't consider the "Brasher Doubloon" to be a US coin. It was privately issued/struck, and is about as much a US coin as is a Civil War Token, or a Hard Times token, or maybe more comparable, any colonial issue before the USA existed.

 

Colonials aren't US coins if you mean they weren;t struck by the US Mint. Neither is the CSA half dollar.

 

It is apparent though that US collectors treat them at least as quasi US coins. They are less expensive than regular issues of comporable scarcity in many or most instances but far more expensive than foreign struck coins such as the pillar dollar which actually circulated more widely in the colonies .

 

Technically they may not be US coins but US collectors are the ones who are buying them at current prices 99%+ of the time. It certainly isn't anyone else.

[coinman_23885]

here ya go 49'ers

 

 

http://www.coinraritiesonline.com/index.php?page=archive&task=det_archive&offset=136&gal_id=1

 

(Editor's note: This was an April Fool's gag, 2012. Sorry.)