Is it AU58 or MS58?

[wdrob]

 

Just as the title says; Is it AU58 or MS58?

 

Possibly we could come up with a MS59?

 

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Are you referring to the proper designation of the grade?

 

MS means Mint State.

 

AU means About Uncirculated.

 

if it is 58, then it is circulated. The only correct term would be AU-58.

[wdrob]

Well that is what I thought as well.

 

I guess Legend has adapted their own unique grading scale.

 

Maybe the MS in front of the 58 gets them an extra few dollars.

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Just as the title says; Is it AU58 or MS58?

 

Possibly we could come up with a MS59?

 

 

 

On the other hand, it could be AU62 or MS58 if it's a slider.

 

Chris

[RWB]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

 

Concur.

 

Anything else is disingenuous and an attempt to deceive, in my opinion.

[MarkFeld]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

 

Concur.

 

Anything else is disingenuous and an attempt to deceive, in my opinion.

 

Or just incorrect, without any such attempt.

[okbustchaser]

Or simply designating a business strike rather than a proof

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

 

Concur.

 

Anything else is disingenuous and an attempt to deceive, in my opinion.

 

Or just incorrect, without any such attempt.

 

I almost stated that as an alternative; however, (see what I did? No "but" ) the phrasing of the OP question did not encompass the parameter of considering a mistake. So, using deductive reasoning, I assumed........

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Or simply designating a business strike rather than a proof

 

No, that is not simplistic, and does not equate with any PCGS/NGC/ANACS technical grading definitions. Marketing descriptions, maybe......and I would disagree that is acceptable as a designation.

 

I understand what you are conveying, I think, that it is a possibility that the strike may be weak and exhibiting the appearance of a circulated coin, even though it is mint state.

 

If the coin is mint and a weak strike, that is covered within technical descriptions of an MS coin as I recall.

[okbustchaser]

Or simply designating a business strike rather than a proof

 

No, that is not simplistic, and does not equate with any PCGS/NGC/ANACS technical grading definitions. Marketing descriptions, maybe......and I would disagree that is acceptable as a designation.

 

I understand what you are conveying, I think, that it is a possibility that the strike may be weak and exhibiting the appearance of a circulated coin, even though it is mint state.

 

If the coin is mint and a weak strike, that is covered within technical descriptions of an MS coin as I recall.

 

While I agree that it doesn't match any technical grading definitions and is incorrect I have often seen it used to designate business strikes rather than proof strikes reasonably often. For example, the PCGS price guide divides the two categories this way.

 

Doesn't mean uncirculated merely that it isn't a proof in that context.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Or simply designating a business strike rather than a proof

 

No, that is not simplistic, and does not equate with any PCGS/NGC/ANACS technical grading definitions. Marketing descriptions, maybe......and I would disagree that is acceptable as a designation.

 

I understand what you are conveying, I think, that it is a possibility that the strike may be weak and exhibiting the appearance of a circulated coin, even though it is mint state.

 

If the coin is mint and a weak strike, that is covered within technical descriptions of an MS coin as I recall.

 

While I agree that it doesn't match any technical grading definitions and is incorrect I have often seen it used to designate business strikes rather than proof strikes reasonably often. For example, the PCGS price guide divides the two categories this way.

 

Doesn't mean uncirculated merely that it isn't a proof in that context.

 

I have seen the same, and knew what you meant. An example is an old ANACS Holder I have that is a 3cS graded Proof 50. I think we are in agreement, and the terminology is market created as opposed to technical definitions. It is not good for any of us when these types of designations are used and do not have a basis of technical definition. It confuses all.

[RWB]

"Proof" is a manufacturing result, not a grade.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

"Proof" is a manufacturing result, not a grade.

 

Exactly the point.

[wdrob]

 

Or just incorrect, without any such attempt.

 

I agree Mark, and before I asked this question I thought of the two possible reasons being:

 

• Typo
  
• Possibly some way of describing a slider
   
  

 

So my question was asked to find out if there was a new (or even possibly an old) term that I should acquaint myself with in order to be an adequately armed buyer in the hobby.

 

The screenshot below shows one of the areas and since it was immediately followed my a AU58 I thought there might be something I should be learning here.

 

This was not intended to be a 'Bash Laura' thread. I don't know the lady nor have any reason to form my opinion of her or the company based solely on her rambling blog entries.

 

Based on the screenshot I think I will go with answer 'B' - it is an attempt to convey that they are of the opinion that it is a slider.

 

Maybe you should suggest this as a possible addition to future Heritage Catalogues at the next Board Meeting Mark.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RWB]

Except for the occasional error, calling a coin graded lower than "60" 'mint state' is a blatant attempt to influence the buyer into thinking the coin is actually uncirculated. Coin dealers and auction companies have been doing this for generations. The twisted descriptions, casual omissions of defects and stretched statements of condition are an unfortunate part of the business.

 

"Well, it would be beautiful silk purse -- except for the use of hog hide."

[michael]

Just as the title says; Is it AU58 or MS58?

 

Possibly we could come up with a MS59?

 

 

 

 

it is au 58

 

NEVER ms 58 and/or ms 59

 

ms begins at 60

[copper toning]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

 

Concur.

 

Anything else is disingenuous and an attempt to deceive, in my opinion.

 

Or just incorrect, without any such attempt.

 

If a random eBay seller had multiple coins listed as such your response would be different.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

AU.

 

Uncirculated or "MS" starts at 60.

 

No exceptions; no BS.

 

Concur.

 

Anything else is disingenuous and an attempt to deceive, in my opinion.

 

Or just incorrect, without any such attempt.

 

If a random eBay seller had multiple coins listed as such your response would be different.

 

Why do you think so? Do you have direct personal knowledge?

Your opinion appears to be somewhat accusatory and slightly belittling. I am probably wrong, and it is just the choice of words and phrasing used. I hope so.

[wdrob]

 

 

 

Oh, God - Please don't let this turn into a 20 page discussion. I have enough of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

 

 

Oh, God - Please don't let this turn into a 20 page discussion. I have enough of those.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know why that would be a bad thing. Courteous discussions are interesting in my opinion.

You presented an interesting subject. It is a very worthwhile topic. If one member presents an opinion that is subject to different interpretations of intent and purpose, it is mannerly to discuss the reason and eliminate any misinterpretation of intent by others.

 

For example, your comment follows my query of the reason a member posted as he did.

The nature and phrasing of your Post could be interpreted as humor or it could be interpreted as an opinion that my Post is offensive to you, or it could be interpreted as a reply to the nature of the Post I was responding to.

There are many facets to your original question. All are deserving of open discussion....with manners of course.

 

[RWB]

You are witnessing the creation of bureaucracy.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

You are witnessing the creation of bureaucracy.

 

......or democracy. Of course one follows the other.

[coinman_23885]

Maybe it was a typo. Knowing Legend and their normal inventory, maybe they meant MS68 instead of 58. I have seen them shove the wrong number in a title before.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

You are witnessing the creation of bureaucracy.

 

......or democracy. Of course one follows the other.

 

Or a numismatic lynch mob...

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

You are witnessing the creation of bureaucracy.

 

......or democracy. Of course one follows the other.

 

 

Or a numismatic lynch mob...

 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Maybe it was a typo. Knowing Legend and their normal inventory, maybe they meant MS68 instead of 58. I have seen them shove the wrong number in a title before.

 

 

I tilted toward that same thought as it would be logical.

When I saw the same thing multiple times, and one listing CAC, I started thinking it was a new marketing concept that was pushing the marketing grading envelope. Then when I saw other listings with the proper AU58 description, I was befuddled. I know others have from time to time commented on the spelling issues concerning Posts by Ms. Sperber, but somebody must check the info before a formal Listing, I would think.

It brings up the question of any other listed items being listed correctly. I hope this is fixed and explained, from a business perspective.

[RWB]

"Lynch Mob" --- Wasn't he that bullion dealer in Florida who built a mansion but didn't pay sellers?

 

PS: Bureaucracy is part of any organizational structure. It can be good, bad, indifferent or whatever the citizenry are apt to tolerate. If you want stifling bureaucracy, try getting a business license in France, or be an American opening a factory in India or China. OK--too far off the topic.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

"Lynch Mob" --- Wasn't he that bullion dealer in Florida who built a mansion but didn't pay sellers?

 

No, that was his older brother Letum Eetkaq.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

"Lynch Mob" --- Wasn't he that bullion dealer in Florida who built a mansion but didn't pay sellers?

 

PS: Bureaucracy is part of any organizational structure. It can be good, bad, indifferent or whatever the citizenry are apt to tolerate. If you want stifling bureaucracy, try getting a business license in France, or be an American opening a factory in India or China. OK--too far off the topic.

 

...or a License to practice Medicine in Korea. Tubs of fun. You can easily dispose of any coins on the path to doing so.... for face value. It is surprising how many persons there like coins.