Augustus Saint Gaudens 1907 High Relief 1 1

[maveric7379-migration]

Hi,

Can anyone suggest me the collectors price of this original coin.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

[CaptHenway]

Hello, and welcome.

 

Unfortunately, the price varies so much with the condition of the coin that the question is impossible to answer without more information. Also, there are some very good counterfeits of this coin that must be considered.

 

Please tell us more about the coin, including its origin.

[maveric7379-migration]

It is a $20 Augustus Saint Gaudens original coin. However i would like to confirm if the value of an original coin will be in ball park range of about $20M as someone who saw it assessed this value for the coin.

[BillJones]

The $20,000 price tag would by a piece that is "almost nice." Generally an MS-63 graded example will sell for somewhere in the $25,000 range. An MS-64 will be in the $30,000 range, and an MS-65 sells in the $45,000 range. All of these prices are for coins that have been certified by NGC or PCGS. The genuine examples of this coin can dip below $10,000 if the coin has wear or damage.

 

Uncertified coins or coins that have been certified by less than main stream concerns bring lower prices. The reasons are that their grades have yet to be determiend from the market perspective, and the possibility of repairs, problems or even counterfeiting exist.

 

$20,000 would by you an MS-62 graded coin. Such pieces can be attractive, but many of the examples I have seen have issues, like a light over all rub, slightly impaired luster or minor marks that an experienced collector will notice right away.

 

I would urge you to buy a certified coin, if you are really interested in an example. There are counterfeits and there are genuine coins that have been abused, which can sell at quite a discount when those problems are taken into consideration.

 

For what it's worth here are some photos in three grades.

 

MS-63

 

 

MS-64

 

 

MS-65

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Clearly the high end ones like Bill Jones displayed go for more than the average ones: http://coins.ha.com/itm/high-relief-double-eagles/double-eagles/1907-20-high-relief-wire-rim-ms64-pcgs/a/1219-5473.s

 

I ran into a collector who was crowing about having bought an MS64 HR for around $25K. But on Heritage Auctions they go for that and less every week.

[wdrob]

 

However i would like to confirm if the value of an original coin will be in ball park range of about $20M as someone who saw it assessed this value for the coin.

 

Bill either this was a mistake on the OP's part or someone told him it was worth $20,000,000.00 and not $20,000.00

 

Welcome to the forum maveric7379.

 

Located Here are some of the prices ad examples that others have sold for in the past. You might want to start there. I don't think you will find one in auction archives that sold for $20 million though.

 

 

[BillJones]

He might be confusing it with the Ultra High Relief $20 gold coins, but that pieces not worth anywhere near $20,000,000. In fact no coin is worth that at the moment with the current record at $10,000,000 for the 1794 dollar in SP-66.

[CaptHenway]

I have seen "M" used as an abbreviation for "thousand" enough times that I assume that is what he meant.

[RWB]

There are also many excellent fakes - especially the "Omega" brand.

[BillJones]

There are also many excellent fakes - especially the "Omega" brand.

 

Believe or not the "Omega" pieces are still quietly traded as a sort of the collectable with a story. I've seen them move "under that table" at the shows.

[maveric7379-migration]

Thank you all for replying. I don't have much idea about coins so i have attached few pictures of this coin.

[BillJones]

It is counterfeit for sure, and it looks like it is not made of gold. It was only gold plated and most of that has worn off of it. It appears that someone tried to acid test at the bottom of the reverse which resulted in some predictable damage.

 

Beyond that the die work and the design details are all wrong. The reverse does not appear to be in high relief. Compare it with the photos of the coins I posted. If you look carefully you will see that this piece is quite different in the design details.

 

I'm sorry things didn't work out on this. Don't let this deter you from getting into the hobby if you want to do that.

 

[CaptHenway]

Is it real big? Then it is a drink coaster made to look like a coin. Sorry.

[BillJones]

Is it real big? Then it is a drink coaster made to look like a coin. Sorry.

 

Or one of these coin replicas you can win playing Skeeball to the boardwalk. The real thing is 34 mm in diameter.

[wdrob]

 

After the OP posted the example they have, my first thought was this 67mm replica that is part of a Bicentennial wooden wall plaque. But possibly theirs is close to the 34mm. I also could not see the initials of R.D. as on this example.

 

 

 

[Conder101]

Not the same die work as on the piece you showed wdrob. Not as crude. (But still pretty crude.)

[BillJones]

Wdrob's Ms. Liberty has a big grin on her face.

 

I wonder why?

[wdrob]

Hahaha!

 

Yeah I noticed that. No that brass or gilded piece that I have is part of some decoupage wall ornament that I purchased for a couple of dollars only for the bicentennial set inside.

 

The quarter, Half Dollar, and the Ike Dollar coins all have toned beautifully but I failed to consider; how in the hell can I ever get them out of there without damaging the coins?

 

Liberty may be smiling for the original person who bought this thing. There is a "COA" in an envelope attached to the back of the plaque and the original purchasers name is handwritten "Wilson Baker", dated in 1976, and serial number 58 out of a total of no more than 5,000 - so they claim.

 

I guess I will just leave it intact as it reminds me of some kind of project I would have thrown together while in the Boy Scouts to earn a Merit Badge.

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Time for a refresh.....Job, $$$, and virus-permitting, I hope to get an AU58 at next year's FUN Convention.

Prices for the 1907 HR's at the medium-grades appear to be weakening (up to MS63) but for Gem or Superb Gem, they're steady or rising from what I see on HA and GC.  Haven't checked Stacks, though.

Edited April 2, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

9 hours ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Time for a refresh.....Job, $$$, and virus-permitting, I hope to get an AU58 at next year's FUN Convention.

Prices for the 1907 HR's at the medium-grades appear to be weakening (up to MS63) but for Gem or Superb Gem, they're steady or rising from what I see on HA and GC.  Haven't checked Stacks, though.

Weakening in prices has not been confined just to MS63 and lower grade examples.

[GoldFinger1969]

3 hours ago, MarkFeld said:

Weakening in prices has not been confined just to MS63 and lower grade examples.

Really, Mark ?  I thought I saw flat-or-rising prices when you hit the MS65 level.  I didn't write down the numbers or really lock in on then, because quite frankly that level is above my pay grade at this time.  I'll take your word for it.

Any thoughts on why they have been weakening -- just tracking the general weakness in the U.S. coin and/or gold market the last few years ?  Alot of collectors don't understand why the 1907 HR's are as "expensive" as they are....they think with the 1907 HR numbers out there, the price should be lower for some reason....I've always just thought that the coins were in "strong hands" over the years and that lots of people bought one/hold them who might not collect gold in general or DEs in particular.  Hence the greater demand for the coins over the years and maybe that is now reversing.

BTW, you did a good job correcting an auction description...I emailed HA and you were the one who responded a few weeks ago regarding one of those Mercanti Saint Gaudens silver 1 oz. pieces.  Good Job !

Edited April 2, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

24 minutes ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

Really, Mark ?  I thought I saw flat-or-rising prices when you hit the MS65 level.  I didn't write down the numbers or really lock in on then, because quite frankly that level is above my pay grade at this time.  I'll take your word for it.

Any thoughts on why they have been weakening -- just tracking the general weakness in the U.S. coin and/or gold market the last few years ?  Alot of collectors don't understand why the 1907 HR's are as "expensive" as they are....they think with the 1907 HR numbers out there, the price should be lower for some reason....I've always just thought that the coins were in "strong hands" over the years and that lots of people bought one/hold them who might not collect gold in general or DEs in particular.  Hence the greater demand for the coins over the years and maybe that is now reversing.

BTW, you did a good job correcting an auction description...I emailed HA and you were the one who responded a few weeks ago regarding one of those Mercanti Saint Gaudens silver 1 oz. pieces.  Good Job 

Thank you. 

Yes, “just tracking the general weakness in the U.S. coin and/or gold market the last few years”. The coins are not really “rare” and typically, there are more then enough available at most grade levels. They’d probably sell for much less, if they weren’t so beautifully designed and thus, so popular. 

[GoldFinger1969]

46 minutes ago, MarkFeld said:

Thank you. 

Yes, “just tracking the general weakness in the U.S. coin and/or gold market the last few years”. The coins are not really “rare” and typically, there are more then enough available at most grade levels. They’d probably sell for much less, if they weren’t so beautifully designed and thus, so popular. 

In your experience, have you found many 1907 HR's in the hands of people who don't collect coins and might not have another coin at all in their possession ?  In other words, passed down as a family heirloom ?  Maybe not even knowing how much it is worth ?

Barring that, it's quite possible that when the 1st generation of post-WW II coin collectors got some $$$ in the 1960's and 1970's -- before the price of gold exploded -- they bought the 1907's at what today would be considered very low prices.

I can't find auction or references to sales prices for 1907 HR's in the 1960's and 1970's, but am still looking.  It's actually easier to see the prices in the early-1900's than 40-60 years ago.

Edited April 2, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[MarkFeld]

1 hour ago, GoldFinger1969 said:

In your experience, have you found many 1907 HR's in the hands of people who don't collect coins and might not have another coin at all in their possession ?  In other words, passed down as a family heirloom ?  Maybe not even knowing how much it is worth ?

Barring that, it's quite possible that when the 1st generation of post-WW II coin collectors got some $$$ in the 1960's and 1970's -- before the price of gold exploded -- they bought the 1907's at what today would be considered very low prices.

I can't find auction or references to sales prices for 1907 HR's in the 1960's and 1970's, but am still looking.  It's actually easier to see the prices in the early-1900's than 40-60 years ago.

I think I’ve encountered a handful (or perhaps two) of non-collectors with High Reliefs over a period of many years. 

[RWB]

The coins were supposed to be allocated with one bag (250 pieces) for each sub-Treasury, and from there to the correspondent banks. However, one document notes that Treasury employees intercepted nearly all of the coins, then offered them at a premium. The street price was about $30 per coin.

I recall that the price of a really nice MCMVII DE in 1960 was around $200, which was a lot of money back then..but Mr. Feld is better placed to investigate prices. (Check the ads in old copies oi The Numismatist.)

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, RWB said:

The coins were supposed to be allocated with one bag (250 pieces) for each sub-Treasury, and from there to the correspondent banks. However, one document notes that Treasury employees intercepted nearly all of the coins, then offered them at a premium. The street price was about $30 per coin.

I recall that the price of a really nice MCMVII DE in 1960 was around $200, which was a lot of money back then..but Mr. Feld is better placed to investigate prices. (Check the ads in old copies oi The Numismatist.)

Sounds about right, Roger....I think I recall before the price of gold exploded in the mid-1970's that a BU 1907 HR was $500-$1,000.  That would be a tripling or so from the price in 1960.  Makes sense.

[Conder101]

The first reference I can find in the graysheet for a 1907 HR was in 1974, with a "Choice BU" (which the sheet equated to MS-65) with a bid price of $3,900 and Ask $4,200.

[GoldFinger1969]

1 hour ago, Conder101 said:

The first reference I can find in the graysheet for a 1907 HR was in 1974, with a "Choice BU" (which the sheet equated to MS-65) with a bid price of $3,900 and Ask $4,200.

Thanks Conder....gold started off the 1974 year about $120 and finished closer to $190.  But given the premium, maybe the 1907 HR traded apart from bullion then.

Edited April 3, 2020 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

Darn...some guy on the CU boards posted that he found 3 HRs that someone uncovered in a SDB.....he submitted them for grading, but the thread ended with no reply on what the grades were. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 4/26/2015 at 10:05 AM, BillJones said:

The $20,000 price tag would by a piece that is "almost nice." Generally an MS-63 graded example will sell for somewhere in the $25,000 range. An MS-64 will be in the $30,000 range, and an MS-65 sells in the $45,000 range. All of these prices are for coins that have been certified by NGC or PCGS. The genuine examples of this coin can dip below $10,000 if the coin has wear or damage....$20,000 would by you an MS-62 graded coin. Such pieces can be attractive, but many of the examples I have seen have issues, like a light over all rub, slightly impaired luster or minor marks that an experienced collector will notice right away.

An MS-63 Wire CAC (in one of those solid white NGC holders that isn't optimal) just sold for $17,325 including bp.

Edited April 8, 2020 by GoldFinger1969