Two 1888 Morgans to guess the grade

[Hack]

Below are two 1888 P Morgan Dollars with the photos taken with the same lighting and camera position. Guess the grade of these two Morgan dollars. They will be listed as coin A and coin B.

[coinman_23885]

66, maybe even a + if what little chatter is not as conspicuous in hand.

65

 

[Colorado68]

New at this but will give it a try

 

A- 67

B- 65+

[wdrob]

 

66

65

 

 

 

[Mark T]

A) 66 +

B) 65 +

[Raisethis2]

These are not easy coins to find in high grades. Congrats.

 

1. MS 66

 

2. MS 64+ (shot at MS 65)

[e1cnr]

A - altered surface (would need in hand and loupe to confirm that)

B- 64

[$ilverHawk]

Coin A 65, coin B 66. Both are below average strikes for 1888, but relatively clear fields and devices give each a bump.

[coinman_23885]

Coin A 65, coin B 66. Both are below average strikes for 1888, but relatively clear fields and devices give each a bump.

 

Did you reverse the grades? Did you mean coin A is a MS66 and coin B is a MS65? If not, I am curious as to why you grade the second coin, with more noticeable abrasions in the field, higher than the first coin.

[$ilverHawk]

Coin A 65, coin B 66. Both are below average strikes for 1888, but relatively clear fields and devices give each a bump.

 

Did you reverse the grades? Did you mean coin A is a MS66 and coin B is a MS65? If not, I am curious as to why you grade the second coin, with more noticeable abrasions in the field, higher than the first coin.

 

Understand that we all giving opinions based on the OP's pics. I grade MS coins I buy based on surface preservation, strike and luster. Yes, there is a Obverse field rub on coin B in a focal area. But coin B has a superior strike and based on the pics, I judge the luster of each coin to be equal. If I am buying/grading a coin I will always take a better struck coin versus minor focal area hits. Don't care what the TPG says, that is my criteria.

 

1888 Morgans are $150.00 - $200.00 at MS65 and $450.00-$500.00 at MS66. MS67 is another story.

 

Carl

[jpcienkus]

Tough to grade from the pictures because I think they hide the surfaces a little. They also seem to be slightly out of focus. Yes, I'm wearing my glasses!

 

Coin A: Possible 66

I don't like the hair right above the ear. It looks too smooth and e1cnr pointed out "altered surfaces" and he might be right. This year had many weakly struck coins from worn dies, but the pictures make that area appear to have been polished. The fields are extremely clean and lustrous. I think there might be more contact marks on Ms. Liberties cheek than the pictures let on.

 

Coin B: MS65

I'd grade one point higher if it weren't for the surface abrasions in the left obverse field. It's strike is better than Coin A, but still not a full strike.

[MarkFeld]

Based on what I can see in the images, I would grade both coins MS66. However, the lighting doesn't show Liberty's cheek especially well in either shot or the marks in the left obverse field of the second coin.

 

In response to a couple of comments in this thread:

 

I see no evidence of altered surfaces on the first coin, and both pieces are plenty well enough struck to receive an MS66 grade, if they are otherwise deserving.

[Hack]

Below is the grade of coin B, and the coin was correctly graded on the thread from MS 64+ to MS 66. The coin is a solid Gem MS 65.

 

I will add some information on coin A and give a second chance to grade. The coin received a straight MS grade. The coin has a soft strike as noted from the comments. The photo is correct on the contact as there is only a little contact on the cheek but the fields are clean. The coin has brilliant "gray" luster that can not be picked up from the photo. The coin has a slight orange peel surface on the left obverse field that looks like specs in the photo in front of her eye.

[Hack]

Second try to post photo of the grade of coin B.

[wdrob]

Well now you have me thinking it is a 67 and if it were (especially after your description) then I would say it most likely warrants that grade.

 

Still going to stick with 66 on coin A. It is a really nice looking coin to me.

 

 

 

 

[jpcienkus]

Based on what I can see in the images, I would grade both coins MS66. However, the lighting doesn't show Liberty's cheek especially well in either shot or the marks in the left obverse field of the second coin.

 

In response to a couple of comments in this thread:

 

I see no evidence of altered surfaces on the first coin, and both pieces are plenty well enough struck to receive an MS66 grade, if they are otherwise deserving.

 

I'm glad you chimed in on that issue Mark. I wasn't certain, but in the picture that area looked especially "shiny" whereas most of the rest looked satiny.

[coinman_23885]

Second try to post photo of the grade of coin B.

 

What did coin "A" grade?

[wdrob]

He hasn't revealed it yet. He gave better descriptives and suggested folks guess again.

 

 

[Hack]

When I purchased coin A raw, I thought it was a slam dunk for at least a MS 64 because of the minimal contact, eye appeal and nice luster. I was surprised with the grade of MS 62, but the coin does have a gray luster, soft strike and some slight orange peel on the left obverse field.

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm a little late to this party, but your pictures do not show a coin which deserves a 62 grade. Either the pictures are lying, or this coin is severely undergraded. I would have guessed a strong 64 or even 65 for this coin.

 

Can you try and take more pictures, from different angles and possibly with different lighting? Is there something hiding that we just aren't seeing in these pictures?

 

If not, then I suggest contacting NGC and trying to get the grade of this coin reviewed. The strike is not sufficiently bad to justify a 62, and the orange peel (if it is in fact that) would be due to die deterioration, and is a mint made effect. This will have no effect on the grade.

 

Granted, even at 64/65, the value of this coin is low enough that it won't make that much of a difference.

[Mark T]

When I purchased coin A raw, I thought it was a slam dunk for at least a MS 64 because of the minimal contact, eye appeal and nice luster. I was surprised with the grade of MS 62, but the coin does have a gray luster, soft strike and some slight orange peel on the left obverse field.

 

62 ?? Then pictures were hiding a lot of something !

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=2648438-009

 

Your photos did make the coin look better than it probably looks in hand. I can see a lot more marks in the NGC photo. Regardless it is still under graded at 62 . From the NGC pictures MS 64 is reasonable for this coin.

[Raisethis2]

Coin A looks like it got the same treatment a coin I posted about a month ago received. Mine had clean fields, cheek and neck but just had that washed out, gray luster that had little sex appeal.

 

I've concluded that the graders like "pop" to the point where when it's missing there's not much that can save a coin.

 

Your coin definitely deserved a better fate.

[MarkFeld]

Coin A looks like it got the same treatment a coin I posted about a month ago received. Mine had clean fields, cheek and neck but just had that washed out, gray luster that had little sex appeal.

 

I've concluded that the graders like "pop" to the point where when it's missing there's not much that can save a coin.

 

Your coin definitely deserved a better fate.

 

I give the graders, who saw the coin in hand, the strong benefit of the doubt. My guess is that the coin has an area of cleaning or wiping that is not apparent in the images.

[e1cnr]

 

 

On the first coin, the fields looked suspiciously clean, but somewhat wavy to me. The same effect would be seen on late die states. The NGC pics do look much different than the original post.

 

The strike is rather weak - hair detail near ear and reverse eagle chest feathers.

To grade a 62 could very well be over-dipped dead, but not enough for details grade.

[Hack]

Below are two more photos with different lighting, and a photo under loupe of the left field showing what I called orange peel.

[Colorado68]

That middle photo shows more what a 62/63 might look like. Had I seen than previously I wouldn't have guessed as high.

[wdrob]

I don't even think the middle photo (or any of the new photos) dictates a MS62 grade but I would have to agree with Mark that maybe the graders saw something we can't possibly see in pictures.

 

I sure was surprised to see MS62 on that A coin based off the initial photos you provided. Still surprised after the second set of photos but I would not go MS66 on my guess after second set of photos.

 

MS64 yes.

 

 

[Raisethis2]

The left field is just metal flow IMO. There is however much more "stacking rub" in the latest pictures than was previously viewable.

 

I also agree with Mark that an in hand inspection will always trump photos.

[jpcienkus]

I have a 1902 S that I submitted raw to NGC. The cheek was very clean. The fields were also very clean. The coin was graded MS62. When I showed it to a local dealer, his impression was that it graded 62 due to the lack of luster.

 

NGC cert: 2619727-003

 

Seems to me your 1888 might be have a similar situation.

 

I plan to have my 1902 S professionaly photographed this year. There is a picture of it if you look up the cert.

 

Edited to add some information.