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collectors choosing NGC

Started by dimefreak,

18 posts in this topic

dimefreak

dimefreak

Posted
Posted

Eric Newman sent his collection to NGC and now Donald Patrick. These are old timers with vast knowledge and years invested. Does that speak volume to anybody here??? Have you ever walked up to a NGC only dealers table? No? Me either!!! But I'd bet you walked up to a PCGS only dealers table ;-) .

 

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Conder101

Conder101

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Eric Newman sent his collection to NGC and now Donald Patrick. These are old timers with vast knowledge and years invested. Does that speak volume to anybody here???

Only in one way, Heritage is the top auction house so the collections went there. Heritage is also a significant shareholder in NGC so they send most submitted coins there for slabbing.

 

I've seen a lot of PCGS only collectors, but I don't think I've ever seen a PCGS only dealer.

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Raisethis2

Raisethis2

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Buy the coin, not the slab.

 

I do agree though. The grading service selected has everything to do with business connections. I get a kick out of the guys crossgrading and downgrading (sometimes). Makes me chuckle.

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brg5658

brg5658

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I've seen a lot of PCGS only collectors, but I don't think I've ever seen a PCGS only dealer.

 

Oh, I definitely have. The first that comes immediately to mind is Don Rinkor.

 

And there are lots of "dealers" who carry 90%+ PCGS...e.g. Legend.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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I've seen a lot of PCGS only collectors, but I don't think I've ever seen a PCGS only dealer.

 

Ive seen more than several PCGS only dealers. When you ask them why they dont carry NGC and/or ANACs Ive received the basically the same answer - only PCGS coins sell.

 

Apparently Kool-Aid isnt just for collectors...

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physics-fan3.14

physics-fan3.14

Posted
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I've seen a lot of PCGS only collectors, but I don't think I've ever seen a PCGS only dealer.

 

Oh, I definitely have. The first that comes immediately to mind is Don Rinkor.

 

And there are lots of "dealers" who carry 90%+ PCGS...e.g. Legend.

 

And if it doesn't have a CAC sticker, then it is Dreck! haha

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Walkerfan

Walkerfan

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I've seen a lot of PCGS only collectors, but I don't think I've ever seen a PCGS only dealer.

 

Oh, I definitely have. The first that comes immediately to mind is Don Rinkor.

 

Me Too----Larry Shapiro is another one and there are more.

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Kurtdog

Kurtdog

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Eric Newman sent his collection to NGC and now Donald Patrick. These are old timers with vast knowledge and years invested. Does that speak volume to anybody here???

I guess if you're ignorant of this it does...

Heritage is the top auction house so the collections went there. Heritage is also a significant shareholder in NGC so they send most submitted coins there for slabbing
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coinsbygary

coinsbygary

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I find this thread fascinating because of the various perceptions people hold concerning PCGS and NGC. However, if you follow the money all these perceptions begin to make sense.

 

For instance, when a popular, previously ungraded hoard comes to market there is a lot of haggling that goes on behind the scenes as to who will grade the hoard. The bottom line is this, the owner will likely go with the TPG in which he or she can get the best deal AND the most for their coins at auction.

 

What also comes into play is the auction house the owner selects. Thus, how well the auction house markets the coins and the past history of closed auctions are keys in determining which auctioneer to select. Lastly, one must not forget the rates of buyers and sellers fees in determining who auctions their coins.

 

The perception that PCGS coins sell is just that a perception, but perceptions drive the market for both dealer and collector alike. Throw in CAC and you elevate that perception, except where CAC NGC coins are concerned. This to me is lunacy and if I can get a nice coin in a NGC holder for a little less, I'll take it any time. With CAC, the NGC coin is no better or worse than an equivalent coin in a PCGS holder.

 

That said there are always a few anomalies that seem to go against conventional wisdom. For instance, the Saddle Ridge Hoard was graded by PCGS and just a few months ago I noticed a Saddle Ridge coin up for auction at Heritage in an NGC holder. I wonder if the person who crossed the coin thought they would get a better grade. At any rate the coin had a high starting bid and did not sell.

 

So the question remains what are we to make of all this? First learn how the coins you collect are graded. Next determine what the market will bear for the coin you want to add to your collection. Finally, buy the coin that looks the nicest to you irregardless of the holder for the money you are willing to spend. In other words, forget the hype and do your homework!

Gary

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dimefreak

dimefreak

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Eric Newman sent his collection to NGC and now Donald Patrick. These are old timers with vast knowledge and years invested. Does that speak volume to anybody here???

I guess if you're ignorant of this it does...

Heritage is the top auction house so the collections went there. Heritage is also a significant shareholder in NGC so they send most submitted coins there for slabbing

 

 

Okay so let's paint this picture.... Here come Eric Newman with his absolutely out of this world collection... Heritage tells this guy he has to go with NGC???? He doesn't have any say in where in precious babies go for grading? Get Real!!!

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dimefreak

dimefreak

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I find this thread fascinating because of the various perceptions people hold concerning PCGS and NGC. However, if you follow the money all these perceptions begin to make sense.

 

For instance, when a popular, previously ungraded hoard comes to market there is a lot of haggling that goes on behind the scenes as to who will grade the hoard. The bottom line is this, the owner will likely go with the TPG in which he or she can get the best deal AND the most for their coins at auction.

 

What also comes into play is the auction house the owner selects. Thus, how well the auction house markets the coins and the past history of closed auctions are keys in determining which auctioneer to select. Lastly, one must not forget the rates of buyers and sellers fees in determining who auctions their coins.

 

The perception that PCGS coins sell is just that a perception, but perceptions drive the market for both dealer and collector alike. Throw in CAC and you elevate that perception, except where CAC NGC coins are concerned. This to me is lunacy and if I can get a nice coin in a NGC holder for a little less, I'll take it any time. With CAC, the NGC coin is no better or worse than an equivalent coin in a PCGS holder.

 

That said there are always a few anomalies that seem to go against conventional wisdom. For instance, the Saddle Ridge Hoard was graded by PCGS and just a few months ago I noticed a Saddle Ridge coin up for auction at Heritage in an NGC holder. I wonder if the person who crossed the coin thought they would get a better grade. At any rate the coin had a high starting bid and did not sell.

 

So the question remains what are we to make of all this? First learn how the coins you collect are graded. Next determine what the market will bear for the coin you want to add to your collection. Finally, buy the coin that looks the nicest to you irregardless of the holder for the money you are willing to spend. In other words, forget the hype and do your homework!

Gary

 

 

Saddle Ridge coins were found by non collectors and purchased by a DEALER ;-)

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
Eric Newman sent his collection to NGC and now Donald Patrick. These are old timers with vast knowledge and years invested. Does that speak volume to anybody here???

I guess if you're ignorant of this it does...

Heritage is the top auction house so the collections went there. Heritage is also a significant shareholder in NGC so they send most submitted coins there for slabbing

 

 

Okay so let's paint this picture.... Here come Eric Newman with his absolutely out of this world collection... Heritage tells this guy he has to go with NGC???? He doesn't have any say in where in precious babies go for grading? Get Real!!!

 

Moreover, the reality is that PCGS coins will command more in many series, especially when it comes to high end pieces and the Registry. Many will quibble about it, but it is reality regardless of whether it is always warranted. Heritage isn't going to cut its own throat (i.e. in its share of the auction proceeds) in order to make a few measly dollars in grading fees.

 

On another note, I don't think it looks very good that Heritage submits to NGC if it owns a part of it. I don't think there is any impropriety, but it looks like a conflict of interest that should be avoided IMO.

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dimefreak

dimefreak

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Exactly Kenny!!! I was thinking the same! I mean this guy has had a million auctions. Realistically thousands of coins have been sold with his name on the holder. Add the bump in price for the PCGS premium. And were talking thousands upon thousands of dollars left on the table. However, joeyuk brings in a wildcard.... Newman had many foreigns as well as tokens\medals that would definitely do better in NGC plastic. Perhaps the other coins played a part in his decisions.

 

 

What's interesting to me is the dealers I speak of purchased the coins out of the auctions and crossed the coins to PCGS. So the dealers to me are set on PCGS. Dealers job is to make money. Just digest it and you will see what I am trying to say.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Exactly Kenny!!! I was thinking the same! I mean this guy has had a million auctions. Realistically thousands of coins have been sold with his name on the holder. Add the bump in price for the PCGS premium. And were talking thousands upon thousands of dollars left on the table. However, joeyuk brings in a wildcard.... Newman had many foreigns as well as tokens\medals that would definitely do better in NGC plastic. Perhaps the other coins played a part in his decisions.

I think that in every way, including "commercially", going with NGC was the proper decision, as it was with the Reiver collection - a comparable situation.

 

I seriously doubt any significant amount of money was "left on the table" by using NGC. For those coins that allegedly would be better in PCGS holders, the dealers who specialize in crossovers would have been bumping heads anyway for the privilege of doing the crossover, thus keeping each other honest by bidding at appropriate levels.

 

From what I can see, the Newman coins in "lousy" NGC slabs did just fine.

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coinman_23885

coinman_23885

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From what I can see, the Newman coins in "lousy" NGC slabs did just fine.

 

By your use of the word "lousy," I think you might have misread my intention. I wasn't being critical or dismissive of NGC in any way. In fact, many of my favorite coins (including the cameo proof Liberty Walking Half Dollar I purchased from Scottsman) reside in NGC holders. And the NGC example looks frostier than my PCGS cameo Walker.

 

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