1832 Capped Bust Half

[wdrob]

Something seems wrong with this coin but I just can't seem to put my finger on it.

 

Suggestions?

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Dipped, if not otherwise cleaned AU.

[Raisethis2]

Looks dipped by the pictures. A coin that's almost 200 years old shouldn't be bright white. By now it should have plenty of personality.

 

I think that's what's missing.

[coinman_23885]

Dipped, if not otherwise cleaned AU.

 

+1

[MBA101]

A grading service would likely call it XF details cleaned. Good candidate for a Kraft envelope and a very long time in storage.

 

It is an O-102a. Mine is slightly later in die state but close in wear. I just call it XF

 

http://maibockaddict.com/1832-o-102a-r3-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml

[MarkFeld]

A grading service would likely call it XF details cleaned. Good candidate for a Kraft envelope and a very long time in storage.

 

It is an O-102a. Mine is slightly later in die state but close in wear. I just call it XF

 

http://maibockaddict.com/1832-o-102a-r3-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml

 

Why would they call it XF (rather than AU) details, if they are going to note it as cleaned? It looks like solid AU in terms of details.

[MBA101]

A grading service would likely call it XF details cleaned. Good candidate for a Kraft envelope and a very long time in storage.

 

It is an O-102a. Mine is slightly later in die state but close in wear. I just call it XF

 

http://maibockaddict.com/1832-o-102a-r3-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml

 

Why would they call it XF (rather than AU) details, if they are going to note it as cleaned? It looks like solid AU in terms of details.

 

I am trying to look past the "brightness" and I think it has XF 45 detail. Of course, if luster is pretty extensive still, then I guess AU would be appropriate. I cannot tell if there is any luster left on this one as it looks rather odd to me.

[MarkFeld]

A grading service would likely call it XF details cleaned. Good candidate for a Kraft envelope and a very long time in storage.

 

It is an O-102a. Mine is slightly later in die state but close in wear. I just call it XF

 

http://maibockaddict.com/1832-o-102a-r3-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml

 

Why would they call it XF (rather than AU) details, if they are going to note it as cleaned? It looks like solid AU in terms of details.

 

I am trying to look past the "brightness" and I think it has XF 45 detail. Of course, if luster is pretty extensive still, then I guess AU would be appropriate. I cannot tell if there is any luster left on this one as it looks rather odd to me.

 

Thanks and I agree about the odd look. I am admittedly ignoring that and focusing most heavily on the feather detail of the eagle.

[Afterword]

The top of the shield on the reverse looks wrong to me and the arrowheads. Would a poor strike account for these?

[MBA101]

The top of the shield on the reverse looks wrong to me and the arrowheads. Would a poor strike account for these?

 

It is the die marriage. follow the link to my site to see pics of another....

 

Crude arrowheads appeared on several 1832 reverses.

[Afterword]

Thanks, Dave!

[wdrob]

Thanks for all the insight. The arrows were one of the areas that presented the most concern since I was not sure if that could have been signs of a counterfeit piece or if it was from normal minting.

 

As far as dipped; I was fully aware of that. There is no doubt on that. But the cleaning aspect had me curious if it was the angle and lighting of the picture that was hiding signs (lines) of cleaning.

 

Since this piece is being sold raw I think it is a given that it was once in a details holder and since they do not generally place a coin in a details holder for dipping alone, chances are there are cleaning lines on that coin that are not visible from the photo.

 

Thanks again. since Afterword and MBA addressed the funky look on the arrows (what had me most concerned) it would seem that it probably is a genuine coin.

 

A genuine coin I will steer clear of none the less.

 

Thanks.

 

[MarkFeld]

 

..Since this piece is being sold raw I think it is a given that it was once in a details holder and since they do not generally place a coin in a details holder for dipping alone, chances are there are cleaning lines on that coin that are not visible from the photo.

 

 

 

It's far from a given that the coin was once in a details holder. There are a great many, much more valuable coins which have never been submitted for grading.

[wdrob]

It's far from a given that the coin was once in a details holder. There are a great many, much more valuable coins which have never been submitted for grading.

 

You know Mark, I use to firmly believe that too but over the period of time I have been active here and ATS it has constantly been drilled into my head that I was wrong thinking like that. I still don't understand why many feel that is an absolute considering how many coins that are still out there that were left with loved ones/families that never once knew what a TPG or a certified slab was or is.

 

Do you see any signs of cleaning lines on the coin and if not do you think the lighting and angles may be hiding it?

 

Thanks

 

[MarkFeld]

It's far from a given that the coin was once in a details holder. There are a great many, much more valuable coins which have never been submitted for grading.

 

You know Mark, I use to firmly believe that too but over the period of time I have been active here and ATS it has been constantly been drilled into my head that I was wrong thinking like that. I still don't understand why many feel that is an absolute considering how many coins that are still out there that were left with loved ones/families that never once knew what a TPG or a certified slab was or is.

 

Do you see any signs of cleaning lines on the coin and if not do you think the lighting and angles may be hiding it?

 

Thanks

 

I think people who feel that way, do so, because THEY would submit the coins for grading if they owned them. But there are plenty of others who, for various reasons, wouldn't get the coins graded.There are many owners of coins who are nearly or completely unfamiliar with the concept of grading.

 

I don't see cleaning hairlines on the coin in question. But cleaning doesn't necessarily result in conspicuous hairlines, the coin has a very unnatural appearance and I strongly suspect it has been cleaned (beyond dipping).

[wdrob]

I appreciate the opinions and your insight Mark. For some reason I like this coin and am really wanting to find out what the deal is with it when in hand.

 

For that reason I sent an email to the seller and asked if they would accept an offer, even though they did not have it listed as accepting offers. If they choose to accept a reasonable offer then maybe I can then see what it looks like in hand.

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I appreciate the opinions and your insight Mark. For some reason I like this coin and am really wanting to find out what the deal is with it when in hand.

 

For that reason I sent an email to the seller and asked if they would accept an offer, even though they did not have it listed as accepting offers. If they choose to accept a reasonable offer then maybe I can then see what it looks like in hand.

 

 

 

Curiously, what is your idea of a "reasonable offer" for that coin?

[physics-fan3.14]

I appreciate the opinions and your insight Mark. For some reason I like this coin and am really wanting to find out what the deal is with it when in hand.

 

For that reason I sent an email to the seller and asked if they would accept an offer, even though they did not have it listed as accepting offers. If they choose to accept a reasonable offer then maybe I can then see what it looks like in hand.

 

 

 

Do yourself a favor, and only buy original, attractive, uncleaned examples.

 

You might have to settle for EF instead of AU quality - but you'll have something attractive instead of a pile of cleaned silver.

[wdrob]

 

Curiously, what is your idea of a "reasonable offer" for that coin?

 

Much less than what they wanted. I figured about as much as a details EF auction figures but they have already told me they do not accept offers.

 

I look at that photo and the fields looks very smooth. The color is off and that in my opinion is indication that the photographer either is not very good at taking coin photos or intentionally is trying to hide something. I was really wanting to find out.

 

 

Do yourself a favor, and only buy original, attractive, uncleaned examples.

 

You might have to settle for EF instead of AU quality - but you'll have something attractive instead of a pile of cleaned silver.

 

Jason, I can appreciate your intentions but I think attempting to dictate what one should find "attractive" based on your taste, or that of anyone else for that matter, is a bit of a stretch.

 

If I were buying a coin with the sole intention of selling it then I can fully understand buying what other people find "attractive" and not necessarily what I find attractive. There was another 1832 I was looking at also, for the same asking price, which was "Original and Uncleaned" but I actually found that coin very ugly. Others may find it attractive.

 

Go figure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jom]

I appreciate the opinions and your insight Mark. For some reason I like this coin and am really wanting to find out what the deal is with it when in hand.

 

For that reason I sent an email to the seller and asked if they would accept an offer, even though they did not have it listed as accepting offers. If they choose to accept a reasonable offer then maybe I can then see what it looks like in hand.

 

 

 

Do yourself a favor, and only buy original, attractive, uncleaned examples.

 

You might have to settle for EF instead of AU quality - but you'll have something attractive instead of a pile of cleaned silver.

 

I'd generally agree but there are many cases I've seen dipped coins that have re-toned that look quite a bit better than original crusty ugly pieces. It all depends on the magnitude of the "old cleaning" and one's personal taste I guess. To each their own...and all that.

 

jom

[Afterword]

Some collectors know very little about coins in general and are quite happy and satisfied with their collection of worn and cleaned coins. The sad thing is when they discover how much some of these coins would have been worth if they had not been cleaned. Not sad in the sense that they lost out monetarily, but in the sense that they lost that happiness and satisfaction in their collection that they once enjoyed.

 

Do such collectors know too little about coins, or do we know too much?

 

Who is the true collector of coins, and who is the collector of a coin's value?

 

[wdrob]

Hmm. Good point but since I took every single coin from all my TPG Slabs (all but one or maybe two were details free high grade) I knew that the chance of selling them at any point later would be limited and prices would be lower.

 

I did not care. Still don't really. It is nice being able to open the cabinet and see the coin laying there on that felt without a slab in between me and the coin.

 

Due to my collecting practices it also allows me to consider coins that might or might not be cleaned if I find the coin to be attractive TO ME.

 

I can always send in the coins to be regraded at a later date if i so decide to sell. Great Collections is an option to consider since they will submit with a discounted rate. If I pass tomorrow, my wife has one simple instruction. Send everything to Ian at Great Collections and let him and his team do all the work.

 

 

[Walkerfan]

AU 50 details (dipped or polished).

[wdrob]

AU 50 details (dipped or polished).

 

I was certain it was dipped but I was on the fence about it being polished. I think that was what was giving me the greatest amount of uncertainty. Probably what is making it look odd.